steering

[TravisMac]

Where do you notice it pulling to the right? Both highway and surface streets?

[Nu2Jeeps]

i dont think i am over analyzing it.  it should drive straight, anything else is a potential problem.  It did this before the 2.5 lift.

It pulls no matter where i am driving, through the neighborhood or on the interstate.

Thanks guys. 

[Nu2Jeeps]

i emailed the shop where it has been aligned 4 times and they got right back to me last night and said it would be a topic of their monday meeting and they would contact me after the meeting.

[j3ff3ry_j33p]

have you verified the pull is still there with the steering damper removed ? Ideally, we should not need a steering stabilizer on an aligned Jeep but they smooth out the jolts inherent in a straight axle vehicle. One test to eliminate any possibility it's the SS is to drive it w/out.

I suspect yours will still push towards pssgr without SS.

Then , have you gotten accurate weight of each wheel / tire ? how much do the 2weigh total ? I have experienced inept or not strong enough AFTERMARKET trackbar flex as I turned steering but I didn't notice until I videoed it from the front . The weight of tire/wheel was too much and it was flexing.

Nittos are notoriously heavy , beefy tires.
The OEM jk links are not made for much more than the OEM wheel tire combo. I'd be curious how heavy 1 of your tires and wheels weighs in at ...

a steering gear can 100% look straight,after months of looking at it and seeing straight splines from straight on view . They can absolutely appear to not be messed up but be bent. specifically , the sector shaft can have extremely well hidden orbital bend that can only be detected by lying directly underneath the steering gear - front of rig while a buddy turns wheel lock to lock. You look up at the sector rotation curve to see if there's any lateral egging rotation = bent sector shaft.
I've replaced jku steering gear thrice,fwiw.

If I had to guess , I'd say one of your lower control arm mounts was slightly bent and is causing the normal floatiness of the live axle to be magnified by a subtle bend that's causing the drift to pssgr side.

[8lugLJ]

3rd post over a year ago i said track bar, what blows my mind is it took 6 times at shops for anyone at all to notice the axle was pushed to one side. It will absolutely have to be aligned again after changing that, the reason it appears toed out is bc the shops were trying to compensate for the pull. Find a different shop, just because some guy is looking at a computer screen that says the alignment is "correct" doesnt mean it is for your Jeep. Those specs the alignment computers go by are for stock height/stock tires, NOT a lifted rig, no matter what they tell you.

[Nu2Jeeps]

Thank you for those last two posts. 
I have not weighed the tires and wheels, but the shop said they put a different set on the jeep and tried it.  The wheels and tires have been moved around several times and that is not the issue.  I am now curious about the lower CA brackets. 
I was also amazed it took that many times for someone to tell me the axle was off to one side.  I placed a new adjustable super lift track bar in it and squared it up and the problem persisted.
I took it back to the shop and they had it all day and the best i could get was we moved the track bar over a 1/4 inch to try and offset the pull (didnt work).  They aligned it again and it was pulling even when the tech drove it, but it is not as bad he said
it has been a few weeks and I happened to look at it closely this afternoon ( see image).  I noticed from straight on with the steering wheel straight that i could see slightly more of the inside passenger wheel than the driver wheel (toed out).
I have a realtive that is a mechanic on heavy machinery and his race cars so i gave him a call.  After a video of the tie rod and drag links being turned he believes there is significant play in the drag link joint near the passenger tire.  I wish i could load the video. 
So my new question, can a bad drag link joint cause this constant toeing out? I feel like the passenger tires is pointing about 10 degrees while the driver is straight. 

I hate to keep throwing money at it and guessing.  I dont mind paying to get it fixed, and you would think after 7 times in a Jeep shop they would have a better guess than relocating the TB 1/4 to the driver side.

I really want to figure it out before there a catostrophic failure while driving.

Thanks guys

[patman]

Thank you for those last two posts. 
I have not weighed the tires and wheels, but the shop said they put a different set on the jeep and tried it.  The wheels and tires have been moved around several times and that is not the issue.  I am now curious about the lower CA brackets. 
I was also amazed it took that many times for someone to tell me the axle was off to one side.  I placed a new adjustable super lift track bar in it and squared it up and the problem persisted.
I took it back to the shop and they had it all day and the best i could get was we moved the track bar over a 1/4 inch to try and offset the pull (didnt work).  They aligned it again and it was pulling even when the tech drove it, but it is not as bad he said
it has been a few weeks and I happened to look at it closely this afternoon ( see image).  I noticed from straight on with the steering wheel straight that i could see slightly more of the inside passenger wheel than the driver wheel (toed out).
I have a realtive that is a mechanic on heavy machinery and his race cars so i gave him a call.  After a video of the tie rod and drag links being turned he believes there is significant play in the drag link joint near the passenger tire.  I wish i could load the video. 
So my new question, can a bad drag link joint cause this constant toeing out? I feel like the passenger tires is pointing about 10 degrees while the driver is straight. 

I hate to keep throwing money at it and guessing.  I dont mind paying to get it fixed, and you would think after 7 times in a Jeep shop they would have a better guess than relocating the TB 1/4 to the driver side.

I really want to figure it out before there a catostrophic failure while driving.

Thanks guys

What shops have you taken the jeep?

[j3ff3ry_j33p]

Thank you for those last two posts. 
I have not weighed the tires and wheels, but the shop said they put a different set on the jeep and tried it.  The wheels and tires have been moved around several times and that is not the issue.  I am now curious about the lower CA brackets. 
I was also amazed it took that many times for someone to tell me the axle was off to one side.  I placed a new adjustable super lift track bar in it and squared it up and the problem persisted.
I took it back to the shop and they had it all day and the best i could get was we moved the track bar over a 1/4 inch to try and offset the pull (didnt work).  They aligned it again and it was pulling even when the tech drove it, but it is not as bad he said
it has been a few weeks and I happened to look at it closely this afternoon ( see image).  I noticed from straight on with the steering wheel straight that i could see slightly more of the inside passenger wheel than the driver wheel (toed out).
I have a realtive that is a mechanic on heavy machinery and his race cars so i gave him a call.  After a video of the tie rod and drag links being turned he believes there is significant play in the drag link joint near the passenger tire.  I wish i could load the video. 
So my new question, can a bad drag link joint cause this constant toeing out? I feel like the passenger tires is pointing about 10 degrees while the driver is straight. 

I hate to keep throwing money at it and guessing.  I dont mind paying to get it fixed, and you would think after 7 times in a Jeep shop they would have a better guess than relocating the TB 1/4 to the driver side.

I really want to figure it out before there a catostrophic failure while driving.

Thanks guys

did you take 30 seconds and lie beneath the pitman arm/ sector shaft looking straightup at the sector shaft while someone was turning the wheel back & forth as you observed it's axial rotation as I'd suggested?
I hunted almost exact issue , including ' mystery toe out' for a whole Summer b4 I did so.
I saw an orbital bend in my 2nd stock steering gear sector shaft on my 2011 jku . It would push the toe out w/ multiple , known good drag links.

this bend in sector shaft did not show up laterally AT ALL. you could not see it bent from head on , side on , thru the engine bay down ward....only lying right dead center beneath it was it revealed.

might not be your issue but it'd be worth the 15 seconds to lie under there and check if the sector shaft pivots straight.

[clark123456]

Thank you for those last two posts. 
I have not weighed the tires and wheels, but the shop said they put a different set on the jeep and tried it.  The wheels and tires have been moved around several times and that is not the issue.  I am now curious about the lower CA brackets. 
I was also amazed it took that many times for someone to tell me the axle was off to one side.  I placed a new adjustable super lift track bar in it and squared it up and the problem persisted.
I took it back to the shop and they had it all day and the best i could get was we moved the track bar over a 1/4 inch to try and offset the pull (didnt work).  They aligned it again and it was pulling even when the tech drove it, but it is not as bad he said
it has been a few weeks and I happened to look at it closely this afternoon ( see image).  I noticed from straight on with the steering wheel straight that i could see slightly more of the inside passenger wheel than the driver wheel (toed out).
I have a realtive that is a mechanic on heavy machinery and his race cars so i gave him a call.  After a video of the tie rod and drag links being turned he believes there is significant play in the drag link joint near the passenger tire.  I wish i could load the video. 
So my new question, can a bad drag link joint cause this constant toeing out? I feel like the passenger tires is pointing about 10 degrees while the driver is straight. 

I hate to keep throwing money at it and guessing.  I dont mind paying to get it fixed, and you would think after 7 times in a Jeep shop they would have a better guess than relocating the TB 1/4 to the driver side.

I really want to figure it out before there a catostrophic failure while driving.

Thanks guys

did you take 30 seconds and lie beneath the pitman arm/ sector shaft looking straightup at the sector shaft while someone was turning the wheel back & forth as you observed it's axial rotation as I'd suggested?
I hunted almost exact issue , including ' mystery toe out' for a whole Summer b4 I did so.
I saw an orbital bend in my 2nd stock steering gear sector shaft on my 2011 jku . It would push the toe out w/ multiple , known good drag links.

this bend in sector shaft did not show up laterally AT ALL. you could not see it bent from head on , side on , thru the engine bay down ward....only lying right dead center beneath it was it revealed.

might not be your issue but it'd be worth the 15 seconds to lie under there and check if the sector shaft pivots straight.

Dang it, Jeffrey, is it 30 seconds or 15 seconds?

[j3ff3ry_j33p]

Thank you for those last two posts. 
I have not weighed the tires and wheels, but the shop said they put a different set on the jeep and tried it.  The wheels and tires have been moved around several times and that is not the issue.  I am now curious about the lower CA brackets. 
I was also amazed it took that many times for someone to tell me the axle was off to one side.  I placed a new adjustable super lift track bar in it and squared it up and the problem persisted.
I took it back to the shop and they had it all day and the best i could get was we moved the track bar over a 1/4 inch to try and offset the pull (didnt work).  They aligned it again and it was pulling even when the tech drove it, but it is not as bad he said
it has been a few weeks and I happened to look at it closely this afternoon ( see image).  I noticed from straight on with the steering wheel straight that i could see slightly more of the inside passenger wheel than the driver wheel (toed out).
I have a realtive that is a mechanic on heavy machinery and his race cars so i gave him a call.  After a video of the tie rod and drag links being turned he believes there is significant play in the drag link joint near the passenger tire.  I wish i could load the video. 
So my new question, can a bad drag link joint cause this constant toeing out? I feel like the passenger tires is pointing about 10 degrees while the driver is straight. 

I hate to keep throwing money at it and guessing.  I dont mind paying to get it fixed, and you would think after 7 times in a Jeep shop they would have a better guess than relocating the TB 1/4 to the driver side.

I really want to figure it out before there a catostrophic failure while driving.

Thanks guys

did you take 30 seconds and lie beneath the pitman arm/ sector shaft looking straightup at the sector shaft while someone was turning the wheel back & forth as you observed it's axial rotation as I'd suggested?
I hunted almost exact issue , including ' mystery toe out' for a whole Summer b4 I did so.
I saw an orbital bend in my 2nd stock steering gear sector shaft on my 2011 jku . It would push the toe out w/ multiple , known good drag links.

this bend in sector shaft did not show up laterally AT ALL. you could not see it bent from head on , side on , thru the engine bay down ward....only lying right dead center beneath it was it revealed.

might not be your issue but it'd be worth the 15 seconds to lie under there and check if the sector shaft pivots straight.

Dang it, Jeffrey, is it 30 seconds or 15 seconds?

fair question.
it is 30 seconds .
( diagnosis only takes 15 seconds but the other 15 will be used to yell at whomever you've chosen to sit in driver seat , turning the wheel on the running Jeep you are lying under the steering gear at, trying to get them to hear you over the noise and hood)

[clark123456]

Thank you for those last two posts. 
I have not weighed the tires and wheels, but the shop said they put a different set on the jeep and tried it.  The wheels and tires have been moved around several times and that is not the issue.  I am now curious about the lower CA brackets. 
I was also amazed it took that many times for someone to tell me the axle was off to one side.  I placed a new adjustable super lift track bar in it and squared it up and the problem persisted.
I took it back to the shop and they had it all day and the best i could get was we moved the track bar over a 1/4 inch to try and offset the pull (didnt work).  They aligned it again and it was pulling even when the tech drove it, but it is not as bad he said
it has been a few weeks and I happened to look at it closely this afternoon ( see image).  I noticed from straight on with the steering wheel straight that i could see slightly more of the inside passenger wheel than the driver wheel (toed out).
I have a realtive that is a mechanic on heavy machinery and his race cars so i gave him a call.  After a video of the tie rod and drag links being turned he believes there is significant play in the drag link joint near the passenger tire.  I wish i could load the video. 
So my new question, can a bad drag link joint cause this constant toeing out? I feel like the passenger tires is pointing about 10 degrees while the driver is straight. 

I hate to keep throwing money at it and guessing.  I dont mind paying to get it fixed, and you would think after 7 times in a Jeep shop they would have a better guess than relocating the TB 1/4 to the driver side.

I really want to figure it out before there a catostrophic failure while driving.

Thanks guys

did you take 30 seconds and lie beneath the pitman arm/ sector shaft looking straightup at the sector shaft while someone was turning the wheel back & forth as you observed it's axial rotation as I'd suggested?
I hunted almost exact issue , including ' mystery toe out' for a whole Summer b4 I did so.
I saw an orbital bend in my 2nd stock steering gear sector shaft on my 2011 jku . It would push the toe out w/ multiple , known good drag links.

this bend in sector shaft did not show up laterally AT ALL. you could not see it bent from head on , side on , thru the engine bay down ward....only lying right dead center beneath it was it revealed.

might not be your issue but it'd be worth the 15 seconds to lie under there and check if the sector shaft pivots straight.

Dang it, Jeffrey, is it 30 seconds or 15 seconds?

fair question.
it is 30 seconds .
( diagnosis only takes 15 seconds but the other 15 will be used to yell at whomever you've chosen to sit in driver seat , turning the wheel on the running Jeep you are lying under the steering gear at, trying to get them to hear you over the noise and hood)

I was thinking, " 220, 221, whatever it takes"

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[Nu2Jeeps]

I would rather not call out the Jeep shop that used to have a shop in marietta, but it recently closed.

They called me this afternoon and said they want to look at it again, they have anew idea that it is a bad wheel bearing.  I will let them look at it again next week.

I will lay under the jeep and look for the movement in the sector shaft. I did put a synergy manufacturing sector shaft brace on it a couple of months ago. 

They did take the steering stabilizer off to drive it.  I didnt answer that question earlier.

I found on a jeep forum that a bad drag link joint can cause alignment but the jeep shop said that should not be the case.

I am really at a loss, and just venting at this point. 
So many thoughts and ideas coming at me I dont know which way is up to be honest. 

I was actually searching Northridge 4x4 and about to purchase a synergy tie rod and drag link when the phone rang.

I did as him if they would put a drag link on and align it to see if that was the problem.

Updates to come.
Thanks guys!  I would much rather be spending this money on a winch and 35s