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Author Topic: Gears  (Read 513 times)

Offline Trailabite

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Re: Gears
« Reply #36 on: November 14, 2019, 03:11:01 PM »
Run the numbers to get the crawl ratio
automatic transmission has lower than
manuel transmission.

Maybe I'm not considering those fancy Atlas things...

Are you considering the actual gear ratio also? With both first gears being the same i just don't see how this works.

Good Lord I don't even wheel anymore...
Every time I went and figured my crawl ratio in my TJ using the formula on the internet it was half of what alot of the other guys had. I read where some said to practically double the crawl ratio in a automatic to get a more equalizing numberif what others with stick's got.
If I slip my clutch, does that double my ratio?

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Yes, that's exactly how it works. And it goes up as the engine spins faster at the same time......
Chuck & Sherry

*GET OUT OF KEVIN'S YARD*

Offline Scott F.

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Re: Gears
« Reply #37 on: November 14, 2019, 06:57:48 PM »
@tjsahara00  you’re not losing it. Autos do have a lower effective ratio due to torque multiplication that occurs before the converter stalls.  I’d say it closer to 2-2.5, meaning if your auto 1st gear is 2.5:1 then it will feel similar to a manual with a 5:1 first gear.   Cut and paste below:

“ The main characteristic of a torque converter is its ability to multiply torque when the output rotational speed is so low that it allows the fluid coming off the curved vanes of the turbine to be deflected off the stator while it is locked against its one-way clutch, thus providing the equivalent of a reduction gear. This is a feature beyond that of the simple fluid coupling, which can match rotational speed but does not multiply torque, thus reduces power.”

Offline Big Dave

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Re: Gears
« Reply #38 on: November 14, 2019, 07:24:07 PM »
@tjsahara00  you’re not losing it. Autos do have a lower effective ratio due to torque multiplication that occurs before the converter stalls.  I’d say it closer to 2-2.5, meaning if your auto 1st gear is 2.5:1 then it will feel similar to a manual with a 5:1 first gear.   Cut and paste below:

“ The main characteristic of a torque converter is its ability to multiply torque when the output rotational speed is so low that it allows the fluid coming off the curved vanes of the turbine to be deflected off the stator while it is locked against its one-way clutch, thus providing the equivalent of a reduction gear. This is a feature beyond that of the simple fluid coupling, which can match rotational speed but does not multiply torque, thus reduces power.”
Sweet!!
I went from a 59:1 to a 107:1 crawl ratio.

Offline patman

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Re: Gears
« Reply #39 on: November 14, 2019, 10:14:30 PM »
Quoted from the nice people at TCI Automotive (great read, I learned something!)

Stator --- the stator can be described as the "brain" of the torque converter, although the stator is by no means the sole determiner of converter function and characteristics. The stator, which changes fluid flow between the turbine and pump, is what makes a torque converter a torque converter (multiplier) and not a fluid coupler.

With the stator removed, however, it will retain none of its torque multiplying effect. In order for the stator to function properly the sprag must work as designed: (1) It must hold the stator perfectly still (locked in place) while the converter is still in stall mode (slow relative turbine speed to the impeller pump speed) and (2) allow the stator to spin with the rest of the converter after the turbine speed approaches the pump speed. This allows for more efficient and less restrictive fluid flow.

The sprag is a one-way mechanical clutch mounted on races and fits inside the stator while the inner race splines onto the stator support of the transmission. The torque multiplier effect means that a vehicle equipped with an automatic transmission and torque converter will output more torque to the drive wheels than the engine is actually producing. This occurs while the converter is in its "stall mode" (when the turbine is spinning considerably slower than the pump) and during vehicle acceleration. Torque multiplication rapidly decreases until it reaches a ratio of 1:1 (no torque increase over crankshaft torque.) A typical torque converter will have a torque multiplication ratio in the area of 2.5:1. The main point to remember is that all properly functioning torque converters do indeed multiply torque during initial acceleration. The more drastic the change in fluid path caused by the stator from its "natural" return path, the higher the torque multiplication ratio a given converter will have. Torque multiplication does not occur with a manual transmission clutch and pressure plate; hence the need for heavy flywheels, very high numerical gear ratios, and high launch rpm. A more detailed discussion of torque multiplication can get very confusing to the layman as high multiplication ratios can be easily considered the best choice when in fact more variables must be included in the decision. Remember, the ratio is still a factor of the engine torque in the relevant range of the torque converter stall speed, i.e.: a converter with a multiplication ratio of 2.5:1 that stalls 3000 rpm will produce 500 ft.-lbs. of torque at the instance of full throttle acceleration if its coupled to an engine producing 200 ft.-lbs. of torque at 3000 rpm. However, if this same engine produces 300 ft.-lbs. of torque at 4000 rpm, we would be better off with a converter that stalled 4000 rpm with only a 2.0:1 torque multiplication ratio, i.e.: 300 x 2.0 = 600 ft.-lbs. at initial acceleration. Of course it would be better yet to have a 2.5:1 ratio with the 4000 rpm in this example (provided his combination still allows the suspension to work and the tires don't spin.) This is just a brief overview as the actual scenarios are endless.

Offline Trailabite

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Re: Gears
« Reply #40 on: November 15, 2019, 06:45:55 AM »
^Good stuff

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Offline lt99ls1

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Re: Gears
« Reply #41 on: November 15, 2019, 08:05:37 AM »
^Good stuff

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x2! On the white TJI had 40s and 5.38s and loved it on the trail was a little high for 70mph on the street. On the LJ I have 5.13's and 42s and it seemed about right for both but not perfect. Kind of hoping the LS cures the not perfect part.
Larry

05 LJ
20 BabyMax

Offline tjsahara00

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Re: Gears
« Reply #42 on: November 15, 2019, 09:24:45 AM »
In my TJ I had 5.13 on 37's with the AW4 transmission and it done good on both...I could cruise 70 on the hwy
Kevin Pool
2016 JKU Sport
2000 TJ Sahara (RIP)

 



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