Post by: Jeepster1407 on March 15, 2017, 02:19:57 PM
I'm in search for a trailer now and was curious how everyone secures their rig their trailer. Who All has a pic how they tow? I see yours above Kevin and these straps look like nice quality. I've seen numerous discussions on strapping to the axes vs strapping to the bumpers.(any one arrived and found a strap that fell off or came loose with the jeep suspension bouncing). Also I've read strapping in an "X" configuration or not.
Post by: patman on March 15, 2017, 02:50:07 PM
I attach to the axles using the axle wrap straps, and the other end goes to the corner of the trailer with some tow rings I welded on.
I personally don't cross straps, and also wouldn't attach to a bumper since the jeep does bounce and suspension cycles while trailering.
Post by: clark123456 on March 15, 2017, 02:58:46 PM
Thanks for updating this Kevin.The x versus not-x is almost religious. I'm a nonbeliever in x.
I'm in search for a trailer now and was curious how everyone secures their rig their trailer. Who All has a pic how they tow? I see yours above Kevin and these straps look like nice quality. I've seen numerous discussions on strapping to the axes vs strapping to the bumpers.(any one arrived and found a strap that fell off or came loose with the jeep suspension bouncing). Also I've read strapping in an "X" configuration or not.
You may find some people who feel they have to strap the body and axles..."it moves around too much"...bitch please.
Post by: beve1661 on March 15, 2017, 03:12:29 PM
Post by: tjsahara00 on March 15, 2017, 03:15:03 PM
strapping to bumper.....At CFR I had a lot of fire wood
in the bed so I adjusted the Jeep on the trailer and
then used axle straps and strapped to axles in the rear.
I love my strap's with the spring loaded "gate" as Pat
called them.
Post by: tjsahara00 on March 15, 2017, 03:18:34 PM
So then I went to straps with chain extenstions
until I found the ones I have now in the picture.
Post by: patman on March 15, 2017, 03:24:59 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170315/7d4a6cc696c7142dc567e04926c2a3ff.jpg)
D-rings are welded to the trailer frame, below the deck so i cut those 2 boards to make it easier.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170315/4f13779b98b567cc971743b1bd79c949.jpg)
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Post by: Jeepster1407 on March 15, 2017, 03:30:53 PM
Post by: patman on March 15, 2017, 03:33:12 PM
Oh wow that's crazy. I may have to rethink my strategy...I run mine as straight out as I can and with the shortest distance possible. If, hypothetically, you cross straps and lose one of them, the jeep could be free to bounce to the opposite side.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170315/7d4a6cc696c7142dc567e04926c2a3ff.jpg)
D-rings are welded to the trailer frame, below the deck so i cut those 2 boards to make it easier.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170315/4f13779b98b567cc971743b1bd79c949.jpg)
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
I hit a rounded curb turning into a gas station when coming back from Golden last year. I had my straps running straight back in the rear. When that happened, the trailer tilted and popped up a bit which caused the Jeep to almost shift laterally off the trailer with only about an inch of the rear passenger tire remaining on the trailer. I now cross my rear straps to provide more lateral stability.
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Post by: Anvilsam on March 15, 2017, 03:54:17 PM
Post by: 8lugLJ on March 15, 2017, 04:44:42 PM
Post by: Mortalis5509 on March 15, 2017, 04:45:31 PM
Thanks for updating this Kevin.I have done both ways: to bumpers and to axles. For Jeep axles there is stuff everywhere so I use bumpers. For full width axles, I'll use the axles.
I'm in search for a trailer now and was curious how everyone secures their rig their trailer. Who All has a pic how they tow? I see yours above Kevin and these straps look like nice quality. I've seen numerous discussions on strapping to the axes vs strapping to the bumpers.(any one arrived and found a strap that fell off or came loose with the jeep suspension bouncing). Also I've read strapping in an "X" configuration or not.
Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
Post by: tjsahara00 on March 15, 2017, 04:53:37 PM
As I heard after pulling up to a park after a long drive
"I don't like the way you have that strapped down"
my reply with kids around was I really don't ---- care!
If it works for you and you don't have any trouble then
go for it.....this is the way of discussing different ideals
and other's experience.
Post by: patman on March 15, 2017, 05:37:21 PM
Post by: Jeepster1407 on March 15, 2017, 06:02:27 PM
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Post by: tjsahara00 on March 15, 2017, 06:06:04 PM
Just making a point of everyone does it
different....we have debated this before
It is a good discussion with all the new
straps now compared to the old stuff
Post by: DOUG on March 15, 2017, 06:19:39 PM
If I remember to the next time I'm out, I'll do a little experiment and mark the tire locations on the trailer using my old strapping method, and check when I get to my destination whether or not it's shifted any. I'll cross the rear straps on the way back and repeat the process
I used bumpers for a long time and occasionally got a looose strap and hate the way the jeep looked pulled down. Wondered if the springs lost spring. Axles only for me now.
Naaa. Don't. Cross is a problem when a strap works loose somehow or breaks. Then the other shifts and has a lot of slack. Dons jumped off.
Straight forward and straight back from the attachment point is best.
My opinion is based on how you would tie down with only 3 straps, and this method creates a 3 way that allows no shift regardless of which strap you lose. Everything is tied to the closest direct point.
If you were gaurenteed to never lose a strap, cross is good.
Post by: clark123456 on March 15, 2017, 06:31:54 PM
1) The Frame X folks
2) The Frame non-X folks
3) The Axle X folks
4) The Axle non-X folks
The non-X folks would raise concerns that if one of the straps let loose, you have the other side of the X that would want to pull the vehicle across the trailer. That seemed logical to me, so I avoid the X styles.
The Frame folks argued for the reduced body roll. On the trip to Moab with Doug, he stated the need to pull the frame down to the bump stops. That sure did not appeal to me, since it takes a LOT of tension to make that happen...and I saw his come loose frequently (almost every fuel stop).
I do know that some axle strap folks will use smaller straps to frame (bumpers, whatever) to reduce body roll while still using the axle straps to keep the jeep on the trailer. I think Todd and Justin do this, but I could be mistaken.
Airing up the tires will help avoid what Don mentioned/experienced, since the low air pressure allows some give in the tires and pressurized tires will not have as much give/flex.
I go for the axle in a non-X form with no concern about body roll. I do not air up my tires, my straps are the basic ones you get at Lowes (although I will likely upgrade to the safety hook style at some point), and I have never had a problem. Of course, i have not jumped a curb yet, but I have experienced plenty of rough roads and pot holes. I have seen the MAC straps go slack on Wes' setup...he blamed cold weather (maybe rain) or something like that...I really don't know what happened, but it made me question if the material they use has some stretch in it versus what my cheapo Lowe's straps have.
I do have 4 cargo ratchet binders and chain, but I was too inept to get them to function with axle straps (they just twisted around and around...very frustrating considering how much money I have in them). I know Rob uses chain and ratchet binders successfully on his setup.
Post by: patman on March 15, 2017, 06:33:56 PM
And the straps that pull the axle/tires downward. Still just friction, but increased frictionQuote from: Doug link=topic=15946.msg291792#msg291792
Straight forward and straight back from the attachment point is best.
That provides no lateral(side to side) resistance at all except for friction of the tires.
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Post by: clark123456 on March 15, 2017, 06:35:15 PM
Tires provide a lot of resistance. I bet you could go a long way with no straps if you didn't make sudden movements or hit curbs.Quote from: Doug link=topic=15946.msg291792#msg291792
Straight forward and straight back from the attachment point is best.
That provides no lateral(side to side) resistance at all except for friction of the tires.
The only thing I don't like with front to back non-X is that I am pretty sure I am putting a lot of pressure on the control arm joints.
Post by: DOUG on March 15, 2017, 07:55:11 PM
Your position that there is no force against lateral movement discounts the tension and the downward pull angles that are compressing into the trailer, but even if the tow points were level to the tie down locations, your position requires stretch of the straps or frame for movement if everything is tight. I assume we are putting a few thousand #s of force on each of those straps. it can't physically move if everything is tight and stays tight, even with only 3. The remaining front and rear that are in align hold it in position.
If you tie to the suspension, that force can vary, lift, and hop. So tie to axles.
Tie straight back and forward.
http://www.fourwheeler.com/features/1507-proper-ways-to-strap-a-truck-trailer/
"We tie all our vehicles down by the axle tube, the lower A-arm, or a lower suspension link, but the best bet is throwing an axle strap around the axle tube. Put the straps over smooth metal. Attaching the straps to the frame or to bumper recovery points is not a good idea because the 4x4’s suspension can compress and rebound as the trailer goes down the road, in effect loosening the straps. This can shorten the life of the straps, break the straps, or cause them to come unhooked if they do not have hook enclosures."
"There is a longstanding debate about whether you should cross your tie-down straps or run them straight. We always used to run the front’s straight and the rears crossed, but Mac’s standpoint is to run them all straight. If you run them crossed and one strap fails or comes loose, the vehicle will have a tendency to move sideways. If the straps are all straight and you lose a strap, the other three will still work to hold the vehicle in place."
Post by: DOUG on March 15, 2017, 07:56:45 PM
I consider safety clips crucial.
What are safety clips?
Post by: clark123456 on March 15, 2017, 08:04:32 PM
Post by: SemperFiArms on March 15, 2017, 08:36:46 PM
Since I got my trailer and have hauled the WJ, I've been going from the axle tubes to the corners of the trailer and not crossing. However when I make a long haul, 75 miles plus, I will add some more to the recovery points just to keep the body more stable as we're traveling down the highway at speed.
One thing I haven't noticed is what size straps folks are using. Is the 2" pretty much standard or anyone using the 3 or 4 inch straps?
I picked up some of the 2" 3500# straps from Tractor Supply. I will be replacing them with either flat hook or the snap hook style. I'll also be getting the axle straps as well.
Post by: SemperFiArms on March 15, 2017, 08:44:17 PM
What are safety clips?I'm using the wrong term. My apologies. Mac calls them snap hooks:
(http://cdn.macscustomtiedowns.com/images/uploads/112_968_thumb.jpg)
I've heard them as snap hook, safety hook, hook clip, & I'm sure there are a few other names I can't remember at the moment.
My current straps have the wire hook and I've had them pop loose a couple times. This is why I've always made it a practice to slam on the brakes several times as I drive down the driveway and on the street coming out of my subdivision. I'll stop and check the strap tension and tighten if necessary. Then I'll go to the QT before I get to I-575 and stop for inspection one last time before pulling onto the highway.
Post by: clark123456 on March 15, 2017, 08:46:09 PM
I am not a mechanical engineer, so what I consider logical for this may not actually be logical! I can see where the arch of the straps, regardless of whether they are crossed or straight, would impact the amount of downward pressure on the axles (and thus the tires).Doug, at this point it's about belief, not logic with the X folks. Just like with religion, no amount of logic can change someone's belief. It's a valiant effort you have put forth!
Sorry I only went through half a mechanical engineering degree. I'm sure they would have covered this subject had I finished. That argument "if you lose one strap, it's worse" is arguing a different point in time - after/when/if you lose one. if you don't lose one, you have more lateral stability. I had a first hand occurrence and I almost lost my Jeep and trailer and perhaps more becuase I had mine going straight. I won't do that again and I hope you get just as lucky as I did should you have a close encounter.What are safety clips?I'm using the wrong term. My apologies. Mac calls them snap hooks:
(http://cdn.macscustomtiedowns.com/images/uploads/112_968_thumb.jpg)
I'm surprised Doug is now preaching strap to the axle...I grab the bumpers and pull out all down but you do have to check and tighten. It does bounce if I grab the axles. Grabbing the bumpers also means lower in the wind.
Don, when your Jeep about fell off, was there any slack in either strap (while still attached) after it happened?
Agreed!Airing up the tires will help avoid what Don mentioned/experienced, since the low air pressure allows some give in the tires and pressurized tires will not have as much give/flex.
My tires were aired up.
Mac says to ensure 1 full wrap on the straps or they will slightly come loose and you'll have to tighten them as you go. I used to not follow that and mine would be slightly loose at stops. Since following it that better mine have not been coming loose.
I consider safety clips crucial. You should buy some for your safety and others. It's hard to argue against liability if something happens when they cost 100-200 and you have much more in the Jeep/tow setup and spend that routinely on other things for the Jeep. Just my opinion. I'm sure it could be said about other things also.Tires provide a lot of resistance. I bet you could go a long way with no straps if you didn't make sudden movements or hit curbs.
We could say - well don't jump curbs. I didn't jump the whole thing, just enough to throw the trailer off axis a bit. The reason for straps isn't for when nothing happens - it's for when something does. e.g. hitting a curb you didn't see.
Post by: DOUG on March 15, 2017, 10:20:59 PM
That argument "if you lose one strap, it's worse" is arguing a different point in time - after/when/if you lose one.What are safety clips?I'm using the wrong term. My apologies. Mac calls them snap hooks:
(http://cdn.macscustomtiedowns.com/images/uploads/112_968_thumb.jpg)
I'm surprised Doug is now preaching strap to the axle...I grab the bumpers and pull out all down but you do have to check and tighten. It does bounce if I grab the axles. Grabbing the bumpers also means lower in the wind.
Yep, did it for years and always got loose straps. Now that I tie the axles straight forward and back, they stay tight.
Agree on snap hooks with safety clips
I looked at ordering today to switch to them.I need a temporary diesel worse right now.
Post by: tjsahara00 on March 16, 2017, 03:28:18 AM
trailer (6 years ago) he had these straps.....found
they started getting frayed from rubbing on the
edge of trailer from hooking on the stake pocket
(http://i898.photobucket.com/albums/ac182/tjsahara00/ratchet%20straps/2%20inch%20Heavy%20Duty%20Ratchet%20Strap%20with%20Narrow%20Flat%20Hooks_zpsbtqsqciy.jpg) (http://s898.photobucket.com/user/tjsahara00/media/ratchet%20straps/2%20inch%20Heavy%20Duty%20Ratchet%20Strap%20with%20Narrow%20Flat%20Hooks_zpsbtqsqciy.jpg.html)
Post by: tjsahara00 on March 16, 2017, 03:30:53 AM
both of these I've had come lose at one
point or another from bouncing around.
(http://i898.photobucket.com/albums/ac182/tjsahara00/ratchet%20straps/2%20inch%20Custom%20Ratchet%20Strap%20with%20Wire%20Hooks_zpsm1eqm1sy.jpg) (http://s898.photobucket.com/user/tjsahara00/media/ratchet%20straps/2%20inch%20Custom%20Ratchet%20Strap%20with%20Wire%20Hooks_zpsm1eqm1sy.jpg.html)
Post by: tjsahara00 on March 16, 2017, 03:35:24 AM
to buy them. Run through the stake pocket and
hook. They worked a lot better and did not rub
anywhere.
(http://i898.photobucket.com/albums/ac182/tjsahara00/ratchet%20straps/220Ratchet20Strap20with20Chain20amp20Hook_zpsyyavw67z.jpg) (http://s898.photobucket.com/user/tjsahara00/media/ratchet%20straps/220Ratchet20Strap20with20Chain20amp20Hook_zpsyyavw67z.jpg.html)
Post by: tjsahara00 on March 16, 2017, 03:38:02 AM
D-ring anchors...even though bolted thru the floor
I found these so......now I love these the best
(http://i898.photobucket.com/albums/ac182/tjsahara00/ratchet%20straps/2%20inch%20Ratchet%20Strap%20with%20Slip%20Hook%20Assembly_zps9nwpvaj4.jpg) (http://s898.photobucket.com/user/tjsahara00/media/ratchet%20straps/2%20inch%20Ratchet%20Strap%20with%20Slip%20Hook%20Assembly_zps9nwpvaj4.jpg.html)
Post by: tjsahara00 on March 16, 2017, 04:10:31 AM
so I did add new D-ring anchors bolted thru the frame with all grade 8 bolts.
This seemed to work better and plus gives me more options for tying down
(you can 4 of these with 15% discount shipped to door for $75)
(http://i898.photobucket.com/albums/ac182/tjsahara00/2003%20Duramax/20161011_162247_zpszk43jmoy.jpg) (http://s898.photobucket.com/user/tjsahara00/media/2003%20Duramax/20161011_162247_zpszk43jmoy.jpg.html)
(http://i898.photobucket.com/albums/ac182/tjsahara00/ratchet%20straps/strap20down-1_zpsur1vdh5a.jpg) (http://s898.photobucket.com/user/tjsahara00/media/ratchet%20straps/strap20down-1_zpsur1vdh5a.jpg.html)
(http://i898.photobucket.com/albums/ac182/tjsahara00/ratchet%20straps/strap20down-2_zpshj522yo1.jpg) (http://s898.photobucket.com/user/tjsahara00/media/ratchet%20straps/strap20down-2_zpshj522yo1.jpg.html)
Post by: clark123456 on March 16, 2017, 06:40:45 AM
Post by: tjsahara00 on March 16, 2017, 07:05:44 AM
I feel a lot better with the frame mounted ones.
Post by: DOUG on March 16, 2017, 07:13:30 AM
I'm positive that in an accident on my trailer, the board mounted d rings would just pull the boards off my trailer instead of holding the jeep to the trailer!Only thru the boards, when you can weld?
I'm buying parts or I'll have extras...
I need a chain hook or the flat hook on the trailer end and the snap hook on the axle end.
Post by: clark123456 on March 16, 2017, 07:14:49 AM
My rears are welded on...sketchy weldsI'm positive that in an accident on my trailer, the board mounted d rings would just pull the boards off my trailer instead of holding the jeep to the trailer!Only thru the boards, when you can weld?
I'm buying parts or I'll have extras...
I need a chain hook or the flat hook on the trailer end and the snap hook on the axle end.
I use the stake pockets at the front, currently.
Post by: tcdawg on March 16, 2017, 08:07:02 AM
I have a tow strap kit from Summit. I think it was around $150, and looked similar to a Mac's kit I was researching. Whatever straps you get, I would make sure they clip on (a spring loaded gate so they can't fall off if they become loose)
I use that same strap kit from Summit. Have had them for about 2 years I think. Very pleased with them.
I use axle straps at the axle. On the front, I strap to the welded D rings on the trailer frame rail so those straps are not perfectly straight, maybe 30 degrees. On the rear I strap straight back.
I have also read, as @BigPrince mentioned, to have at least one full wrap on the ratchet. I have been doing this for the last few years and rarely have a loose strap when I check them. Rain can seem to loosen a strap and if it is raining or starts to rain on my trip I will stop more frequently to check them.
I also check all four straps whenever I stop to get fuel or food, etc and visually look at the tires to see of the jeep has moved any on the trailer. With the wider axles now, my tires are over the frame rails just a bit and I am much more cognizant of checking to make sure the tires have not moved.
Post by: patman on March 16, 2017, 09:14:13 AM
*I also strap while in neutral so that there isn't any stress put on the trans/tc if the jeep shifts. I'll move it into gear when I'm done.
Post by: lt99ls1 on March 16, 2017, 09:16:09 AM
I'm positive that in an accident on my trailer, the board mounted d rings would just pull the boards off my trailer instead of holding the jeep to the trailer!I know for a fact they will either pull boards, break them or rip out. //:hlp// Been there done that.
Post by: Raisinhead on March 16, 2017, 09:26:45 AM
Also, after reading all of this it seems like the logical thing to do is connect every strap differently. One front cross to axle, one straight to bumper, etc :)
Post by: clark123456 on March 16, 2017, 09:31:09 AM
Would more wraps hold even tighter?I think there is a point of limited benefit, but I do wrap at least one time around the ratchet core.
Also, after reading all of this it seems like the logical thing to do is connect every strap differently. One front cross to axle, one straight to bumper, etc :)
Post by: patman on March 16, 2017, 09:46:22 AM
Would more wraps hold even tighter?
Also, after reading all of this it seems like the logical thing to do is connect every strap differently. One front cross to axle, one straight to bumper, etc :)
Tighter? No, but it's less likely to back out. I think of it as winch rope. No one really wants to pull from he first rap.
The rest of your post is spot on.
Post by: Raisinhead on March 16, 2017, 09:50:24 AM
Would more wraps hold even tighter?
Also, after reading all of this it seems like the logical thing to do is connect every strap differently. One front cross to axle, one straight to bumper, etc :)
Tighter? No, but it's less likely to back out. I think of it as winch rope. No one really wants to pull from he first rap.
The rest of your post is spot on.
That's what I meant
Post by: DOUG on March 16, 2017, 09:51:58 AM
The company Kevin posted sells the Chinese straps/kits/parts cheap, and they have USA made with edge guard for a few bucks more.
https://www.ratchetstraps.com/usa-tie-downs
I have no problem getting a few wraps tightening down after pulling the strap tight to start..
Post by: 8lugLJ on March 16, 2017, 10:28:34 AM
on thing i dont get is just like the x vs non x argument is at least go to opposite corners rather than straight forward or back, even if you dont cross, if not then there is no side to side tension at all. stirring the pot..
Post by: DOUG on March 16, 2017, 10:33:02 AM
on thing i dont get is just like the x vs non x argument is at least go to opposite corners rather than straight forward or back, even if you dont cross, if not then there is no side to side tension at all. stirring the pot..
Tight straight forward and back can't move side to side.
Post by: 8lugLJ on March 16, 2017, 10:34:08 AM
on thing i dont get is just like the x vs non x argument is at least go to opposite corners rather than straight forward or back, even if you dont cross, if not then there is no side to side tension at all. stirring the pot..
Tight straight forward and back can't move side to side.
id say the same about tight from the frame. if tight like it should be.
Post by: DOUG on March 16, 2017, 10:40:52 AM
id say the same about tight from the frame. if tight like it should be.on thing i dont get is just like the x vs non x argument is at least go to opposite corners rather than straight forward or back, even if you dont cross, if not then there is no side to side tension at all. stirring the pot..
Tight straight forward and back can't move side to side.
Are you saying tied down tight from the frame shouldn't move? A severe down bump will compress it more than the tie down force and make the straps bounce, and stretch them or work them loose. The only way I felt that worked was when I pulled it down onto the bump stops hard.
Post by: 8lugLJ on March 16, 2017, 11:49:52 AM
id say the same about tight from the frame. if tight like it should be.on thing i dont get is just like the x vs non x argument is at least go to opposite corners rather than straight forward or back, even if you dont cross, if not then there is no side to side tension at all. stirring the pot..
Tight straight forward and back can't move side to side.
Are you saying tied down tight from the frame shouldn't move? A severe down bump will compress it more than the tie down force and make the straps bounce, and stretch them or work them loose. The only way I felt that worked was when I pulled it down onto the bump stops hard.
thats what im saying, if its tight enough then theres no way it could move, unless you are prerunning with your trailer attached. we may all just have to agree to disagree on this topic, just like which radio is better.
Post by: DOUG on March 16, 2017, 06:57:50 PM
id say the same about tight from the frame. if tight like it should be.on thing i dont get is just like the x vs non x argument is at least go to opposite corners rather than straight forward or back, even if you dont cross, if not then there is no side to side tension at all. stirring the pot..
Tight straight forward and back can't move side to side.
Are you saying tied down tight from the frame shouldn't move? A severe down bump will compress it more than the tie down force and make the straps bounce, and stretch them or work them loose. The only way I felt that worked was when I pulled it down onto the bump stops hard.
thats what im saying, if its tight enough then theres no way it could move, unless you are prerunning with your trailer attached. we may all just have to agree to disagree on this topic, just like which radio is better.
Which radio do you think is better?
Post by: Big Dave on March 16, 2017, 08:03:52 PM
My XJ has one strap looped around the rear axle. The strap hooks into the bus body. The front is just sitting there. The weight of the Jeep keeps it planted. If it ever does shift I'll add a floor tie down.
When I got to AOP the rear had shifted some but it stayed put on the ride home.
I want to chain the rearend of the XJ to the tow hooks on the bus. I don't really trust ONE strap to keep the Jeep from crashing thru the back of cab.
Post by: clark123456 on March 16, 2017, 08:15:22 PM
I'd really recommend putting straps on it. Straps aren't for when things are fine, they're the insurance for when shit hits the fan like violent movements - eg. someone cuts you off and it's all you can do to whip it in the other lane hoping nothing goes flying out. I know you've got the bedsides to help but I'd still strap it down. God forbid something happen and it goes flying out and hits oncoming traffic head on and you have to defend why you didn't strap it down to 12 peers who know even less than we do about straps.A wise man...Don.
Post by: Big Dave on March 16, 2017, 08:20:25 PM
Post by: Scott F. on March 16, 2017, 09:52:30 PM
Generally speaking, with a strap at an angle to the longitudinal axis of the rig (front to rear), there are three mutually perpendicular components of force that all make up the resultant force vector that is the strap rating from one end of the strap to the other. This is important to think about when looking at how your straps are on there and the amount of restraint they are going to apply in a given direction. Through resolution of forces you can determine each individual component force i.e. how much is it going to hold back in a forward collision before the strap breaks and sends the jeep forward into the back of my head.
A lot of us use the 2 inch wide ratchet straps that are rated at a breaking strength of 10K. If you look up restraint of loads in military aircraft, they recommend 30 degrees from the longitudinal axis (so 30 degrees out from your axle attachment to the point on the trailer) and 30 degrees horizontal (so from the trailer deck up to the axle attachment point a 30 degree angle, not much you can do here, small tire I guess you better get bigger tires if you need more of an angle down to the trailer). Lets think about the rear straps but the same will apply to the front (just substitute forces resulting from deceleration to forces from acceleration, I think we are all concerned with the decel and lateral the most through). Ok so that means that 10 K rated strap is now providing a restraint of 7,490 lbs of restraint from the rig on the trailer moving forward in on the longitudinal axis (towards your head....eeek), 4,330 lbs of lateral restraint for when you make those aggressive lane swerves or pull a BigPrince curb jump //LMAO//, and 5,000 lbs of vertical component restraint which could come into play if the trailer rolls. Skipping over the dynamic forces acting on the trailer load during an accident or evasive maneuver, this means that if you slam on the brakes your 10 K rated strap now is providing 74.9 percent of that capacity in keeping your rig from moving forward into your head. If your strap was straight forward to back it could provide more restraint but it would lack the lateral restraint component that the two equally opposing angled straps would be providing. So swerving could result in some undesirable shifting on the trailer. The more you angle those straps either out wide to each side or the angle provided by crossing them the lower the amount of restraint before reaching the breaking limit is going to be.
Post by: Scott F. on March 16, 2017, 09:57:01 PM
I'm positive that in an accident on my trailer, the board mounted d rings would just pull the boards off my trailer instead of holding the jeep to the trailer!
@clark123456 board mounted? that's scary. A month from now when my school is out you can bring your trailer to my house and I will weld on some real attachment points. I will consider it my good deed contribution to society...or to those on the interstates at least //LMAO//
Post by: Scott F. on March 16, 2017, 11:37:18 PM
Post by: tjsahara00 on March 17, 2017, 03:13:45 AM
Post by: jd30005 on March 17, 2017, 07:00:14 AM
Post by: tcdawg on March 17, 2017, 07:21:42 AM
. When I tow at night I also like to put my Jeep rock lights on so I can see the jeep better in the mirrors and detect any movement. I also feel the more visibility I give to others may help as well for abrupt lane changes by others at night.
that is a really good idea. I will be doing that next time I'm pulling at night.
Post by: 8lugLJ on March 17, 2017, 09:32:16 AM
Not even gonna take this bait lol. I got flamed not even a week after joining this forum for even suggesting the use of non cb radios.id say the same about tight from the frame. if tight like it should be.on thing i dont get is just like the x vs non x argument is at least go to opposite corners rather than straight forward or back, even if you dont cross, if not then there is no side to side tension at all. stirring the pot..
Tight straight forward and back can't move side to side.
Are you saying tied down tight from the frame shouldn't move? A severe down bump will compress it more than the tie down force and make the straps bounce, and stretch them or work them loose. The only way I felt that worked was when I pulled it down onto the bump stops hard.
thats what im saying, if its tight enough then theres no way it could move, unless you are prerunning with your trailer attached. we may all just have to agree to disagree on this topic, just like which radio is better.
Which radio do you think is better?
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Post by: clark123456 on March 17, 2017, 02:55:27 PM
Damn, Justin...now you want us to switch freaking radios, again...incredible.Not even gonna take this bait lol. I got flamed not even a week after joining this forum for even suggesting the use of non cb radios.id say the same about tight from the frame. if tight like it should be.on thing i dont get is just like the x vs non x argument is at least go to opposite corners rather than straight forward or back, even if you dont cross, if not then there is no side to side tension at all. stirring the pot..
Tight straight forward and back can't move side to side.
Are you saying tied down tight from the frame shouldn't move? A severe down bump will compress it more than the tie down force and make the straps bounce, and stretch them or work them loose. The only way I felt that worked was when I pulled it down onto the bump stops hard.
thats what im saying, if its tight enough then theres no way it could move, unless you are prerunning with your trailer attached. we may all just have to agree to disagree on this topic, just like which radio is better.
Which radio do you think is better?
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Post by: RedDragonATL on August 08, 2017, 08:31:10 AM
Can someone post a link to the strap kit mentioned in here...either a Summit one or the Mac one. I see Mac stuff on the Summit site, but not sure what is best. If not a kit, what length straps are you guys using? Carry extras?
Probably looking to weld some d-rings on. Which ones (with links) would you recommend?
Also, what about a weight distribution hitch? Yes/no/recommendations? I just have a regular ball at the moment. Not sure if the trailer places sell those (going to look today, hopefully!)
One other thing...I know some of you guys move your rig a little forwards or backwards for "balance" or trying to achieve a certain weight on the tongue. What advice can you give about that?
I am totally new to towing, and frankly, it makes me a good bit nervous. I'm already driving a rig (the Yukon) that is bigger than I'm used to and now I'll have 20+ additional feet hanging off the back of me. Any advice is welcome!
Post by: jd30005 on August 08, 2017, 08:39:37 AM
These are the ones I have.
https://m.summitracing.com/parts/mtd-511208
Post by: Anvilsam on August 08, 2017, 08:53:35 AM
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Post by: clark123456 on August 08, 2017, 08:54:39 AM
I am sure we'll have a crew who can strap your jeep down, just tell us where and when.
Since your trailer is 18' long, figure you need no more than 9' straps for this application. Let me know if you find heavy duty straps shorter than that, and post a link ;)
Are you going to do body/frame, or axle strap downs? Crossed or straight?
I have observed so many Mac straps come loose, that I'm no longer interested in that brand; It's a good thing they come with safety clips. I've had one of my straps come loose before, but I consistently see it with Mac strap users.
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Post by: RedDragonATL on August 08, 2017, 08:59:40 AM
Do you want us to order and weld the rings on for you?
Yeah, if it's not too much trouble. Well, even if it is...
Post by: tjsahara00 on August 08, 2017, 09:00:33 AM
Post by: clark123456 on August 08, 2017, 09:03:50 AM
I noted that...but who nearly threw their jeep off the trailer and bought a new trailer because of it?Do you want us to order and weld the rings on for you?
I am sure we'll have a crew who can strap your jeep down, just tell us where and when.
Since your trailer is 18' long, figure you need no more than 9' straps for this application. Let me know if you find heavy duty straps shorter than that, and post a link ;)
Are you going to do body/frame, or axle strap downs? Crossed or straight?
I have observed so many Mac straps come loose, that I'm no longer interested in that brand; It's a good thing they come with safety clips. I've had one of my straps come loose before, but I consistently see it with Mac strap users.
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Wait - who lost a strap on the MoabCo trip? It wasn't a Mac straps owner.
I'm just stating that I've seen way too many Mac straps come loose, to the point I'm no longer a fan. It could have been user error, but I'm suspicious of the seat belt material they use coming loose.
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Post by: RedDragonATL on August 08, 2017, 09:04:51 AM
https://www.ratchetstraps.com/2-auto-ratchet-strap-and-axle-strap-setGood deal, there. Did you get the "standard" webbing or upgrade to the USA made with edge protection? Opinions on what you got?
Post by: tjsahara00 on August 08, 2017, 09:08:44 AM
I like the hooks better than the flat ones
https://www.ratchetstraps.com/2-ratchet-strap-with-slip-hook-assembly
I mounted by D-rings to the frame of
the trailer by using grade 8 hardware
Post by: tjsahara00 on August 08, 2017, 09:10:00 AM
https://www.ratchetstraps.com/2-auto-ratchet-strap-and-axle-strap-setGood deal, there. Did you get the "standard" webbing or upgrade to the USA made with edge protection? Opinions on what you got?
standard
Post by: patman on August 08, 2017, 09:10:10 AM
https://m.summitracing.com/parts/cmb-29-0012
For a weld on D-ring, I just got the big ones from harbor freight. I'm sure there's a better alternative somewhere else, and it's probably better to get the trailer first and plan your strap ring locations before you purchase the mounts since there's more than one style.
Post by: clark123456 on August 08, 2017, 09:10:54 AM
It was VERY loose!I noted that...but who nearly threw their jeep off the trailer and bought a new trailer because of it?Do you want us to order and weld the rings on for you?
I am sure we'll have a crew who can strap your jeep down, just tell us where and when.
Since your trailer is 18' long, figure you need no more than 9' straps for this application. Let me know if you find heavy duty straps shorter than that, and post a link ;)
Are you going to do body/frame, or axle strap downs? Crossed or straight?
I have observed so many Mac straps come loose, that I'm no longer interested in that brand; It's a good thing they come with safety clips. I've had one of my straps come loose before, but I consistently see it with Mac strap users.
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Wait - who lost a strap on the MoabCo trip? It wasn't a Mac straps owner.
I'm just stating that I've seen way too many Mac straps come loose, to the point I'm no longer a fan. It could have been user error, but I'm suspicious of the seat belt material they use coming loose.
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"loose" and "lost" are different words.
My trailer issue was the Jeep was already hanging off both side and I hit a curb too fast in a turn. I still think Xing the back would have helped the lateral motion more than straight back but it's a pain to X them in my current setup. My straps were also not loose when that happened.
(http://image.trucktrend.com/f/45053815+re0+ar0+st0/macs-tie-downs-jeep-wrangler-hanging-jeep.jpg)
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Post by: jd30005 on August 08, 2017, 09:17:56 AM
I think a couple of us have this kit from summit. I've also never had a strap work lose. The only "issue" is I wish it came with the Velcro loops for securing the excess strap.For securing the excess strap, I just use zip ties. I keep an extra pack in the trailer box.
Post by: patman on August 08, 2017, 09:21:39 AM
I think a couple of us have this kit from summit. I've also never had a strap work lose. The only "issue" is I wish it came with the Velcro loops for securing the excess strap.For securing the excess strap, I just use zip ties. I keep an extra pack in the trailer box.
That seems like to obvious of a solution... do you secure it back the the strap with tension? Or just let the bundled material flap around?
Post by: jd30005 on August 08, 2017, 09:24:42 AM
I leave a little "slack" in the strap coming out of the ratchet so I can adjust tension if needed and then just fold the excess back and forth on itself and zip tie the bundle to the strap above the ratchet mechanism.I think a couple of us have this kit from summit. I've also never had a strap work lose. The only "issue" is I wish it came with the Velcro loops for securing the excess strap.For securing the excess strap, I just use zip ties. I keep an extra pack in the trailer box.
That seems like to obvious of a solution... do you secure it back the the strap with tension? Or just let the bundled material flap around?
Post by: tjsahara00 on August 08, 2017, 09:40:29 AM
He only hauled 4 wheelers....I added them to the frame
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4378/35609019924_14f3cff3c9_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/WfDx2o)
Post by: lt99ls1 on August 08, 2017, 09:43:04 AM
I'm positive that in an accident on my trailer, the board mounted d rings would just pull the boards off my trailer instead of holding the jeep to the trailer!Been there, done that.
Post by: kvom on August 08, 2017, 09:44:48 AM
I cross the straps in the rear around the diff; I've seen plenty of threads arguing this on Pirate and elsewhere over the years, but it works for me. Likewise arguments about axle vs. frame.
Post by: tjsahara00 on August 08, 2017, 09:44:56 AM
it down but can't bring myself to do it. You never
know when you might haul something different.
Post by: lt99ls1 on August 08, 2017, 09:57:12 AM
https://www.ratchetstraps.com/2-ratchet-strap-with-slip-hook-assembly
https://www.ratchetstraps.com/2-heavy-duty-axle-strap-w-forged-d-ring
Post by: BigMike on August 08, 2017, 10:01:37 AM
(http://www.boxertool.com/product/66120.jpg)
Post by: tjsahara00 on August 08, 2017, 10:07:25 AM
You guys are overthinking it
(http://www.boxertool.com/product/66120.jpg)
So that's how the mall crowd does it.....nice
Post by: DOUG on August 08, 2017, 10:13:04 AM
SWAY
If you experience trailer sway or the trailer wagging the dog, do not let it escalate,
DO NOT hit the foot brakes as the truck has much more powerful brakes and the trailer has a delay as the magnets charge and it can make things worse depending on how bad the sway got.
Instead, ENGAGE THE TRAILER BRAKE HAND LEVER FULLY and it will brake the trailer and straighten it out. Now apply truck brakes and keep your speed under where that happened. It can be fine and a tractor trailer go by or you pass, or a windy day can make it start.
If SWAY occurs, stop, loosen the straps and move the Jeep FORWARD 6 inches, and give it a try. If it does it again, move it forward another 6 inches. You'll find the sweet spot, and can always load it there after that. You should never have it again once the load is properly distributed.
BRAKE CONTROLLER
Set the brakes by setting it to 3 and getting up to about 10mph and engage it fully and you should feel them slightly. Perfect. If not turn higher and repeat. If too much, lower and repeat. You don't want the trailer stopping the truck.
LOAD LEVELING
On the load leveling hitch, I don't see the need for a single car trailer ever, but I do see the need for AIR BAGS. Does your Luxury Chariot have the load leveling option in the rear? If not, these are cheap, and will level the rig with very little pressure, keeping the front end down, steering normal, headlights down, and drives like normal. $83. http://www.autoanything.com/suspension-systems/61A2966A0A0.aspx
MOUNTAINS:
Since you'll be traveling up and over and down the mountains,
DOWN: take it easy, gear down, keep it under control, it will want to go fast, very fast
UP: Don't expect to maintain 55mph up the big ones, but you might with that beast, but gear down so that it brings your rpms up a little into a place you are comfortable with and the truck can maintain the climb comfortably.
The worst oh shit moment is too fast downhill and sway starts so never let it get to that.
Post by: DOUG on August 08, 2017, 10:14:53 AM
You guys are overthinking it
(http://www.boxertool.com/product/66120.jpg)
So that's how the mall crowd does it.....nice
That is how I tie up the excess strap, mine are really long, making many wraps tight and hooking the bungee to the jeep or trailer.
Post by: tjsahara00 on August 08, 2017, 10:19:54 AM
Post by: jc79 on August 08, 2017, 10:43:00 AM
But they have started to loosen up over time. I'm sure I could get one more click out of them if I tried, but I start with them tight, and they are always a little loose when I stop or get home. Maybe 1-2 clicks worth of slack. I'm not worried about the Jeep coming off based on it, and I assume that any strap material like theirs would do this over time.
Post by: tcdawg on August 08, 2017, 12:35:27 PM
I think a couple of us have this kit from summit. I've also never had a strap work lose. The only "issue" is I wish it came with the Velcro loops for securing the excess strap.
https://m.summitracing.com/parts/cmb-29-0012
For a weld on D-ring, I just got the big ones from harbor freight. I'm sure there's a better alternative somewhere else, and it's probably better to get the trailer first and plan your strap ring locations before you purchase the mounts since there's more than one style.
I also use that kit from Summit. Absolutely satisfied with these straps and axle wraps. Never had an issue with them at all.
Jason, I would highly recommend a weight distribution hitch. Take it from a guy that has pulled quite a bit with an SUV rather than a truck...the weight distribution hitch makes a world of difference. I have never used the anti-sway part, just the weight distribution bars. I wouldn't tow with an SUV without them.
Airbags are great and do a perfect job of leveling the rear so it is not squatting down but they don't distribute an weight through out frame of the tow vehicle. In a 1500 style SUV, both would be optimum but if you had to choose one first....WD hitch.
Look on CL, I got mine there for a fraction of the cost new. The name brands are solid steel and it's pretty easy to give them a look over and tell if they are in good shape or not.
Post by: jc79 on August 08, 2017, 12:39:43 PM
Might be a good option if Craigslist doesn't have one.
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Post by: tcdawg on August 08, 2017, 12:48:36 PM
I went back through this thread. There is a heck of a lot of really good info here.
Post by: RedDragonATL on August 08, 2017, 01:03:47 PM
This is why this club kicks assAbsolutely...and I did try to search and read this thread before just starting a new "Hey, teach me how to load my Jeep" thread. Everyone is willing to share their knowledge and what they've learned, sometimes the hard way. Thanks again!
I went back through this thread. There is a heck of a lot of really good info here.
Post by: DOUG on August 08, 2017, 01:25:35 PM
I bought my Mac straps in 2012 and have been very happy with them. A little PB Blaster on the mechanical parts every so often keeps them operating super smooth.
But they have started to loosen up over time. I'm sure I could get one more click out of them if I tried, but I start with them tight, and they are always a little loose when I stop or get home. Maybe 1-2 clicks worth of slack. I'm not worried about the Jeep coming off based on it, and I assume that any strap material like theirs would do this over time.
Do you tie to the axle or the frame?
It seems that straps tied to the frame or bumper always get a little loose from the suspension movement on the ride, but they don't get loose if tied to the axles.
Axle straps were a MAJOR PITA on the Moab Co trip loading and unloading everyday x 2 rigs x 4 each.
I recently saw tabs on a guys axle for tieing down and am thinking I'll have Danny add front and rear tabs to my axles next time the Jeep is in the shop. just don't want hem where they are trying to rotate the axle under load rather than pull straight back...so they need to be on the front/back, maybe below center, and low profile.
Found a couple of options:
https://www.tabzone.com/12077-3-WELD-ON-TIE-DOWN-_p_644.html
http://steinjager.com/shop/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=30095
Pro's and Cons on that?
Post by: jc79 on August 08, 2017, 02:04:39 PM
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Post by: jd30005 on August 08, 2017, 03:56:40 PM
I've always tied to the axle.
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Likewise. For the Moab/Co haul I also added straps to the bumpers to eliminate any sway. But I have never had any issues tied to the axles.
Post by: clark123456 on August 08, 2017, 04:35:18 PM
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Post by: tcdawg on August 08, 2017, 05:16:32 PM
In seeing some posts that clearly indicate folks are in denial about their strap tightness. I'm appreciative of Jared confirming what I have observed. I don't think it is possible for Wes to keep his straps tight, but that could be user error...Wes don't worry about much!
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Wes all chill like...3 out of 4 ain't bad
Post by: tjsahara00 on August 08, 2017, 05:25:28 PM
Don't worry me anymore
Jason the more your tow the more comfortable
you will get. My first half dozen tow's 6 or 7 years
ago I was nervous as hell.
On the way back from Harlan last
year I had my 3 passengers shitting their pants
on some of those curvy roads passing people
with the concrete barrier inches away.....
In looking back I should have slowed down...LOL
Post by: DOUG on August 08, 2017, 05:25:51 PM
Found a couple of options:
https://www.tabzone.com/12077-3-WELD-ON-TIE-DOWN-_p_644.html
http://steinjager.com/shop/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=30095
Post by: patman on August 08, 2017, 05:41:15 PM
So anybody have tabs on their axles?
Found a couple of options:
https://www.tabzone.com/12077-3-WELD-ON-TIE-DOWN-_p_644.html
http://steinjager.com/shop/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=30095
In my opinion, the tab is just something else to beat up on the rocks and have to inspect every time the jeep is loaded. Is the axle strap adding that much time to your loading process?
Post by: jd30005 on August 08, 2017, 05:45:13 PM
I agree. The straps take me no time at all.So anybody have tabs on their axles?
Found a couple of options:
https://www.tabzone.com/12077-3-WELD-ON-TIE-DOWN-_p_644.html
http://steinjager.com/shop/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=30095
In my opinion, the tab is just something else to beat up on the rocks and have to inspect every time the jeep is loaded. Is the axle strap adding that much time to your loading process?
Post by: RedDragonATL on August 08, 2017, 05:49:59 PM
Post by: jc79 on August 08, 2017, 05:59:57 PM
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Post by: Mortalis5509 on August 08, 2017, 06:39:21 PM
So anybody have tabs on their axles?Why not get the little straps that wrap around the axle? They then hook to the strap.
Found a couple of options:
https://www.tabzone.com/12077-3-WELD-ON-TIE-DOWN-_p_644.html
http://steinjager.com/shop/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=30095
Used mine a lot.
That new chassis is a big pain to strap on my trailer. Weight will not be center but being the fact it's a goose it's doesn't bother me. I can only strap to one point in the rear. Zero cross. The front I can cross. If the axles were more forward it would help.
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Post by: DOUG on August 08, 2017, 06:43:30 PM
I have a few sets of those. Prefer the tabs idea. No damage at the mall.So anybody have tabs on their axles?Why not get the little straps that wrap around the axle? They then hook to the strap.
Found a couple of options:
https://www.tabzone.com/12077-3-WELD-ON-TIE-DOWN-_p_644.html
http://steinjager.com/shop/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=30095
Used mine a lot.
That new chassis is a big pain to strap on my trailer. Weight will not be center but being the fact it's a goose it's doesn't bother me. I can only strap to one point in the rear. Zero cross. The front I can cross. If the axles were more forward it would help.
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Post by: Mortalis5509 on August 08, 2017, 06:47:57 PM
Make sure they are burned in hot. Don't put them where rocks can hit them and thus crack when a strap snatches on it from the trailer hitting a pot hole.I have a few sets of those. Prefer the tabs idea. No damage at the mall.So anybody have tabs on their axles?Why not get the little straps that wrap around the axle? They then hook to the strap.
Found a couple of options:
https://www.tabzone.com/12077-3-WELD-ON-TIE-DOWN-_p_644.html
http://steinjager.com/shop/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=30095
Used mine a lot.
That new chassis is a big pain to strap on my trailer. Weight will not be center but being the fact it's a goose it's doesn't bother me. I can only strap to one point in the rear. Zero cross. The front I can cross. If the axles were more forward it would help.
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Post by: kvom on August 09, 2017, 09:24:08 AM