Georgia Trail Riders Forum
MEMBERS DISCUSSION AREA => General Discussion => Topic started by: Confederate on September 07, 2009, 09:55:58 PM
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Well I am thinking about doing a major upgrade on my truck.
Truck: 1979 Ford F150 4X4
Engine: 351M/400 with Edelbrock 4 barrel
Transmission: C6
I am thinking about putting a 460 engine in the truck and as well as a Granny 3 spd transmission. And also put lower gears in the thing.
This is my toy truck and I usually drive it around town and go to work in it or just drive it around.
I have a Ford Ranger for long distance travel.
So what should I do? Leave the 351M in the truck or upgrade to a 460 and a granny 3 spd transmission?
Thanks.
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Sell the 351M to someone with a big boat for a boat anchor,put 460 with automatic in truck,upgrade to 60's and wheel it around town and on the trails.Just my 2 cents.
Jon
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Sell the 351M to someone with a big boat for a boat anchor,put 460 with automatic in truck,upgrade to 60's and wheel it around town and on the trails.Just my 2 cents.
Jon
So the 351M sucks eh?
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Sell the 351M to someone with a big boat for a boat anchor,put 460 with automatic in truck,upgrade to 60's and wheel it around town and on the trails.Just my 2 cents.
Jon
So the 351M sucks eh?
It's arguable on if the 351m is a boat anchor or not. There are some guys getting serious horsepower out of them, but it is not easy.
Here is an example of about as far as you can take the 351/400 block.
http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=801615&highlight=
If you read over on Pirate, there is a lot of info on the 351/400m block and what you can do with it, but be warned if you make a login over there read and search, be very very careful about posting.
Regardless of whether you swap engines or build what you have, if you plan to use the torque and horsepower you gain, you need to upgrade axles. The 44 front won't hold up to much power under that heavy beast.
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Sell the 351M to someone with a big boat for a boat anchor,put 460 with automatic in truck,upgrade to 60's and wheel it around town and on the trails.Just my 2 cents.
Jon
So the 351M sucks eh?
It's arguable on if the 351m is a boat anchor or not. There are some guys getting serious horsepower out of them, but it is not easy.
Here is an example of about as far as you can take the 351/400 block.
http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=801615&highlight=
If you read over on Pirate, there is a lot of info on the 351/400m block and what you can do with it, but be warned if you make a login over there read and search, be very very careful about posting.
Regardless of whether you swap engines or build what you have, if you plan to use the torque and horsepower you gain, you need to upgrade axles. The 44 front won't hold up to much power under that heavy beast.
Be careful about posting?
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Sell the 351M to someone with a big boat for a boat anchor,put 460 with automatic in truck,upgrade to 60's and wheel it around town and on the trails.Just my 2 cents.
Jon
So the 351M sucks eh?
It's arguable on if the 351m is a boat anchor or not. There are some guys getting serious horsepower out of them, but it is not easy.
Here is an example of about as far as you can take the 351/400 block.
http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=801615&highlight=
If you read over on Pirate, there is a lot of info on the 351/400m block and what you can do with it, but be warned if you make a login over there read and search, be very very careful about posting.
Regardless of whether you swap engines or build what you have, if you plan to use the torque and horsepower you gain, you need to upgrade axles. The 44 front won't hold up to much power under that heavy beast.
Be careful about posting?
Pirate guys are ruthless.
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Pirate guys are ruthless.
That's an understatement... It's nicer than when I started over there, but ask a question in the wrong section or one that you could find the answer in a search, and they will tear into you. There is enough info over there that if you search you will likely find an answer without having to ask. I've been over there since 05 and I think I only have like 24 or 25 posts, just because I can usually find what I need with a search.
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Lol. Computer guys.
Eh, I just get a 460.
Guy wanted to sell me a 460 out of a boat for $400.
Then a guy that works with my brother has a 460 that was in his racing truck (it needs minor work but he is going to fix it) and wants to sell it to me for $600-$800.
Tomorrow I am going to go to this mechanic guy that worked on my truck and see how much he wants for his 460 out of his 2wd 78 or 79 Ford F150.
I can't keep the Dana 44s?
I plan to run either 36's or 38's.
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Richard has a Ranger with mild EFI 302 with F150 axles (44/9") and seems to break a shaft every time out whether he was on 34s, 38s, or 40s.
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Got this from a site I go on as well and a guy asked about should he have 60s or 44s and a guy replied with this:
Not real clear on the question here.
If you feel that you need a D60 in the front of your truck, then dont even consider a D60 for the rear. See, the 60's are very different from front to rear. Rear D60's are only 30 spline, and weak as can be. A rear D60 is only as strong as a D44. The only dofference is that when a D44 breaks an axle, the wheel falls off. When a D60 axle breaks, the wheel stays on.
Overall strength is about the same.
Now as far as a D60 being "too long" we might have to consider what this actually means. Too long, or too wide? Which is it? D44's were available in full sized rigs, as were D60's. They are the same width.
Perhaps the length difference is in the actual size of the ring gear, and, yes it is true, that the 60 is larger, and this will require a shorter driveshaft.
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The front 60 is very strong, I think thats what everyone was talking about in this thread.
However, I still think a stock full float 60 will be stronger than a stock semi float 44. Sure, they have the same shaft diameter and spline count, but since the 60 is full float the shaft sees a purely radial force and not a combination of axial and radial forces like the 44. The 60 also has larger axle tubes and larger gears and larger center section which reduces housing flex, and ask anyone with a dana 35 rear, housing flex is a biatch.
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Put what sucks it the lug pattern.
I will have 8 lug on the front and 5 lug on the back.
Where could I get a 60 from?
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Got an email from a guy saying:
I've got 2 460s that I'm wanting to get rid of. One is a marine motor that has 100 hours on it...which is equivalent to 2000 miles. The other is a newly rebuilt 600hp 460. I'd take $400 for the 1st one and $2000 for the 2nd. Email me back and i'll give you more details on either one.
I don't know about a marine motor. To much work to do to it I'd imagine.
Then I went to talk with this Mexican mechanic that works on my truck and he said One is in that truck he has and he said he probably is going to sell the whole truck for $1500.
Then he said the other 460. He doesn't know if it runs or not but they are going to see and see if it is smoking. If it runs good he said he may sell it for $800 but he said if it smokes and isn't good. He may sell it for less.
So I don't know what to do....
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Confederate,The marine motor will work but they are usally low compression and low HP.You will have to change ,intake,exhaust manifolds,Water pumps and a few other parts to make it work.If you use a 460 out of 2wd you will need a new oil pan to clear your steering.
If you can find a 351 Cleveland motor to build you can get plenty of power cheaper than building a 460 or the 351 M.
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I want to get at least 500 HP
I don't know if I can get it with modifying the 351M.
I like to make is stronger than my friends 7.2 or 7.3 Diesel. Lol. ;)
I know I would like to get lower gears and get at least 38s on that thing.
Blah, I don't know what to do.
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With 500hp and 38's you'll break 60's when you get into it. Have you thought about Rockwells? They have low gears stock, and if you look hard enough you can find a pair for the cost of a front hp 60.
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Hm.. {ehm}
500 HP will snap a Dana 60? Lord.
About how much HP do you think Dana 60s can hold with 38s?
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It's not that a 60 can't be built to handle it, just that when you do that you are talking $$$$.
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$$$$ is something I don't hardly have right now. Lol.
Well any ideas what I should do?
The 351M seems to be ok. Just my stupid Edelbrock carb sucks.
But I would like at least some very eye raising HP from the ole truck and also good pulling power.
What's your two cents about it? Think I needs to gets that 460s or just build up what I have or what?
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Why not put a windsor motor in it? You can get cheap and easy HP out of a small block.
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Well what's the HP of a Windsor and a Modified?
All a modified is, is a cleveland and a windsor put together kinda somehow or something, ya know? I may be wrong.
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Most stock windsors are in the 185-225 hp range and I've seen ones in the 2000+ hp range. There is a cheap abundance of parts out there to build a 302 or 351 as mild or as wild as you want.
I've seen a few Clevors/modifieds that have been built up, but it seems like they could be tricky to build and need a good working knowledge of both the windsors and the clevelands.
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All this FORD talk is bringing me down. :P
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All this FORD talk is bringing me down. :P
Thats because Ford motors are the best!
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All this FORD talk is bringing me down. :P
LMAO!!! You got that right.
You need to go with the first post but instead build a motor that will last.... a Chevy 350! I've seen lots of fords with a chevy motor in them and they run like a bat out of hell and cheaper too. Thats my 2cents
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All this FORD talk is bringing me down. :P
LMAO!!! You got that right.
You need to go with the first post but instead build a motor that will last.... a Chevy 350! I've seen lots of fords with a chevy motor in them and they run like a bat out of hell and cheaper too. Thats my 2cents
The only reason Chevy engines are so popular is because any idiot can build them {nln}
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All this FORD talk is bringing me down. :P
LMAO!!! You got that right.
You need to go with the first post but instead build a motor that will last.... a Chevy 350! I've seen lots of fords with a chevy motor in them and they run like a bat out of hell and cheaper too. Thats my 2cents
The only reason Chevy engines are so popular is because any idiot can build them {nln}
No offense, but there is not much difference in building a SBF & a SBC {hihi}
Chevy just doesnt know which end of the motor the distributor belongs. {no}
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That really is the only difference. That, and the exhaust ports are in a dumb place.
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Chevy just doesnt know which end of the motor the distributor belongs.
True Dat! That's maybe why I drive what I do now, it don't even need no stinkin' distributor.
Capable of making big horsepower and torque, with minor tuning and bigger exhaust for EGT's.
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I hate to disagree with Matt and Jimmy,but I built my SBC to 450HP for 2 grand,my brother-in-law built his SBF to 425 HP for $2600.Besides with a ford you can only use certain parts from certain years.With a Chevy parts from 1955 thru present will enterchange.A 351M and a 351 Cleveland a totally 2 different motors.The cleveland motor uses a small block bell housing,it is basiclly a windsor block with cleveland heads.The modified will only work with a modified bellhousing.
Just my 2 cents.
Jon
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All this FORD talk is bringing me down. :P
First
On
Race
Day (to be eliminated)
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No offense, but there is not much difference in building a SBF & a SBC {hihi}
Chevy just doesnt know which end of the motor the distributor belongs. {no}
Haha, it was just a joke, hence the {nln}. I honestly have no brand loyalty, I've had ford, Chevy, and Chysler, and they all have their own quirks and are pains in the a$$ in their own ways.
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Have you considered a 390 for that rig? They hold up well, easy to work on. Most parts from a 352, 360 will fit on it.
I have one in a 70 F250, 3 on the tree. Has a d60 rear end. Only 3.73 gears though.
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Confederate,
I installed a 460 in my old 79 F150. First thing you will find is that Ford never put a 460 in the F150, so you will either have to make or buy all new brackets, motor mounts, oil pan and custom headers. Back when I did mine the only decent headers that would work a set of fender well headers, which you may or may not have to modify brake lines, fender or steering linkage on the driver side. I bought a crate engine from Jasper Engines that was supposedly putting out 375 to 400 HP and never changed or modified the stock axles and they survived for over 3 years.
You have to be careful with marine engines, they are typically built to run at higher RPM's and sometimes run in reverse rotation. I think somebody already mentioned they have low compression and most of the torque occurs at the low end, which is good for crawling but sucks for daily driving. If your just wanting to swap the engine in and go you need to try and find one out of another truck. Another thing to consider is that a 460 is very big and very heavy. Personally, if I was to do it again I would consider using a 302. Their are so many aftermarket parts for these engines and they can built to handle up to 500HP.
But then again there's nothing like that big block feeling when your smashing the pedal down to the floorboard ;D
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Confederate,
I installed a 460 in my old 79 F150. First thing you will find is that Ford never put a 460 in the F150, so you will either have to make or buy all new brackets, motor mounts, oil pan and custom headers. Back when I did mine the only decent headers that would work a set of fender well headers, which you may or may not have to modify brake lines, fender or steering linkage on the driver side. I bought a crate engine from Jasper Engines that was supposedly putting out 375 to 400 HP and never changed or modified the stock axles and they survived for over 3 years.
You have to be careful with marine engines, they are typically built to run at higher RPM's and sometimes run in reverse rotation. I think somebody already mentioned they have low compression and most of the torque occurs at the low end, which is good for crawling but sucks for daily driving. If your just wanting to swap the engine in and go you need to try and find one out of another truck. Another thing to consider is that a 460 is very big and very heavy. Personally, if I was to do it again I would consider using a 302. Their are so many aftermarket parts for these engines and they can built to handle up to 500HP.
But then again there's nothing like that big block feeling when your smashing the pedal down to the floorboard ;D
Yes in 79 they did put a 460 in the f-150. I actually went and looked at one that had one in it when I was looking for a truck. Just a little info
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They did put them in the 2 wheel drive trucks, but not in the 4x4's from 73 thru 79!
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Ford only put 460s in their F350 and F250 4x4s.
"CUBIC INCHES MEANS ALOT,BUT IT'S WHAT YOU DO WITH WHAT YOU GOT That really means the most"
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They did put them in the 2 wheel drive trucks, but not in the 4x4's from 73 thru 79!
Didn't know that, and it was a 2wd I looked at. My bad
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Well I may keep the 351M. I don't think it's a small block nor a big block. I think it's just a... mid block {hihi}.
I think that is the best thing to do is keep it and build it up. I wonder if I can at least build it up and get 400HP out of it?
I don't know if I want to get a Dana 60 on the front. That would be alot of work to do, wouldn't it? I have to fabricate stuff (I don't have fabricating equipment).
I might just run with 36's but I wish 38's.
Should I stick with the C6 automatic or get a 4 spd granny tranny?
Thought the granny tranny because of the granny gear.
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Ok, I got a 460. It has a '71 Lincoln block, '75 instake, '73 heads. Engine is very dirty. It ran when I bought it. I have taken the heads , the intake, and water pump off. Found out that the engine is bored .30 over so it makes it a 466. I couldn't get the crankshaft out because the pully kept moving so I couldn't pull the pully off.
People said I should carry it to a machine shop to let them hot tank it. They said for them to hot tank it (if I took the whole engine apart) would cost me 60-70 dollars but I got it halfway apart.
I guess I let them take the rest of it apart and hot tank it.
So once they get it apart, I guess they will see my crankshaft and let me know if it is bad.
Should I let them bore it out anymore? I'm going to use this engine for a daily driver too and bogging on occasions too. So I can bore it to .60. Idk if I should or not.
What else should I tell them to do?
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line hone it and go own and stroke that bad boy.
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line hone it and go own and stroke that bad boy.
huh? Lol. Stroke it. My budget is round 1-2k.
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have it line honed for the crank and cam pit new bearings in both. Its easier and cheaper to do now. You shold be able to have a well built 460 for that money. I have some build threads some where with specs. I was gonna and still want to do a 460 in my ranger
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How much will it cost for the machine shop to do that?
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IDK maybe 100-150
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I might keep the .30 bore, what do you say? Or get it .60 over?
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I wouldnt go over .030" Makes the cylinder walls thin and can cause over heating more easily. Plus leave a little meat just in case. you have to rebuild in the future. Good thing is the 460 block has a thick casting and can be bored quite a bit up to .125".
You should get an 806 stroker kit ;D
http://www.rpmmachine.com/ford-460-806-stroker.shtml
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Holy crap! I knew the big blocks could be bored a lot, but didn't know you could go to 1/8". 806ci is a big motor {drool}
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I wouldnt go over .030" Makes the cylinder walls thin and can cause over heating more easily. Plus leave a little meat just in case. you have to rebuild in the future. Good thing is the 460 block has a thick casting and can be bored quite a bit up to .125".
You should get an 806 stroker kit ;D
http://www.rpmmachine.com/ford-460-806-stroker.shtml
Tewo words about the link you posted..
HOLY SCHNIZZLEZ
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Well I got the whole thing apart. Crankshaft fell down though but landed on my finger and leg on the side and hit a tire (with rim) but thank God it didn't hit the concrete or fell from a high high place.
Maybe it isn't bent.
Ok. NAPA guys asked me what pistons am I going to use.I told him I don't know.
So, I need yall to pick out some parts I should install in my 460 to make it a good beast, if yall are willing to do this for me! I am wanting some good hp and torque
I am planning to get my stuff from Summit Racing and get the Bill me Later option. My budget is around 1,000-2,000 dollars. I plan to get the 360 bill me later day thing that Summit has.
Could you make a list?
THANKS!