Georgia Trail Riders Forum
CLASSIFIEDS => Drivetrain => Topic started by: LUVNMY06TJ on November 15, 2014, 06:46:18 AM
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I'm beginning research for a project and was wondering if there was a/multiple resources that list specs of different motors, transmissions, and transfer cases, and which ones easily or not so easily married up to one another. Oh, and a way to identify each would be helpful too. At this point any resource would be helpful, even books. Thanks.
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I'll start out by being a smart ass...google.
On a different note, what's the budget, how much power do you think you need, and auto or manual? Street and trail or just for trail use only?
I have a few ideas but need those answers that way I can give you a suggestion to go in.
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Question I have is which is more important... the transfer case setup or transmission or motor?
Seems that one of those would be available, already have, fit better, have best gearing, etc, and would be the starting point.
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Nowadays it's theoretically possible to hook up lots of motors to lots of transmissions via adapters and swapping input shafts to match spline counts. Same applies to transmissions and transfer cases. But that doesn't mean that every such combination can fit in a Jeep.
Someone I know (not Larry) is putting a 5.3 V8 in his LJ. Without thinking too much about it he bought a 6L80 transmission and an associated harness to hook up all the electronics, and it's too tall for the tunnel. So to get it to fit he had to add a body lift. A little reasearch would have shown that a 4L80 or TH350 would have been preferable.
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Nowadays it's theoretically possible to hook up lots of motors to lots of transmissions via adapters and swapping input shafts to match spline counts. Same applies to transmissions and transfer cases. But that doesn't mean that every such combination can fit in a Jeep.
Someone I know (not Larry) is putting a 5.3 V8 in his LJ. Without thinking too much about it he bought a 6L80 transmission and an associated harness to hook up all the electronics, and it's too tall for the tunnel. So to get it to fit he had to add a body lift. A little reasearch would have shown that a 4L80 or TH350 would have been preferable.
6l80 makes a 4l80 look small. 6l is really tall and takes a lot more room. I did consider the 6l80 to race with but went to a 4l80
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I'll start out by being a smart ass...google.
On a different note, what's the budget, how much power do you think you need, and auto or manual? Street and trail or just for trail use only?
I have a few ideas but need those answers that way I can give you a suggestion to go in.
Google... //LMAO// Well played. ... The budget has not yet been set. I'm trying to find something common, with a lot of aftermarket support/availablilty for replacement parts, perferably used - perhaps a junk yard find/pull a part. I wouldn't mind taking a long time to rebuild something to learn it. I'm looking for something to have ample power for tons and probably 40's so I was thinking 8 cyclinder. This would most likely be manual but I would be open to auto if the right deal came along. This would be primarily for trail but it would need to be streetable at least for a while.
Question I have is which is more important... the transfer case setup or transmission or motor?
Seems that one of those would be available, already have, fit better, have best gearing, etc, and would be the starting point.
Hmm... good question. Well with the power I'm looking for that might be the starting point. The transmission would obviously need to be able to handle the motor, and I really like the idea of 4:1 gear ratio in 4 low but I'm not set on that ratio.
Nowadays it's theoretically possible to hook up lots of motors to lots of transmissions via adapters and swapping input shafts to match spline counts. Same applies to transmissions and transfer cases. But that doesn't mean that every such combination can fit in a Jeep.
Someone I know (not Larry) is putting a 5.3 V8 in his LJ. Without thinking too much about it he bought a 6L80 transmission and an associated harness to hook up all the electronics, and it's too tall for the tunnel. So to get it to fit he had to add a body lift. A little reasearch would have shown that a 4L80 or TH350 would have been preferable.
That's a good point I had not considered Kirk. I'll add that to the list of considerations whilst conducting my research.
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It would be hard to go wrong with a Chevy LS motor as they are cheap, common, and parts are readily available. My LQ9 6.0 in the buggy does about 350HP stock and is pretty bulletproof. The ECM's are easy to program for emissions.
It has a Turbo 350 auto with a reverse manual valve body. Autos with reverse manual shifts are reasonably universal in buggy builds vs. manuals. The TH350 doesn't have any electronics, so interfacing to the ECM and a Jeep's instrument panel is much simpler.
And it has an Atlas TC with a 4.3 low ratio, but you can order them with different ratios as well. Here in the east you don't need really low ratios as wheel speed is needed for wet rocks.
So that's an example of a fairly straightforward powertrain.
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Higher transmission gear can allow you to overcome the wheel speed issue with a low geared transfer case...correct?
Torg (or Clark)
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For a streetable rig choose the diff gear ratio that's best for driving on the road in high. But certainly with a low tc+diff ratio, you can shift the trans to get more wheel speed. I usually use 2nd gear when bumping.
The reverse manual transmission has a couple of advantages:
1) For a sudden recovery you can slam the shifter from 1st to reverse without hunting or shifting into park by mistake
2) Reverse can be use to brake the vehicle if brakes fail
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1) For a sudden recovery you can slam the shifter from 1st to reverse without hunting or shifting into park by mistake
Jim, in case you have not seen or heard of this concept, if you are about to go head over heels on a climb, you can slam the tranny into reverse and get on the gas to pull the vehicle back to where the head will not come over the heels.
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For a streetable rig choose the diff gear ratio that's best for driving on the road in high. But certainly with a low tc+diff ratio, you can shift the trans to get more wheel speed. I usually use 2nd gear when bumping.
The reverse manual transmission has a couple of advantages:
1) For a sudden recovery you can slam the shifter from 1st to reverse without hunting or shifting into park by mistake
2) Reverse can be use to brake the vehicle if brakes fail
Choose the Trans for street not the gears. Th350 isn't know as the strongest and doesn't have od. Better choice to have the gears move the tires with ease and have od to offset the deeper gears.
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TH350 is plenty strong for what we do, esp. if it has the K case. Tripp's correct about the OD. It will be cheaper than a computer controlled tranny both to buy and to integrate. With a buggy where you don't worry about all the JK sensors and gauges, a 4L80 makes more sense. Otherwise the harness will be $$$.
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If you are going LS family then dont be scared of the electronic trans. 4l60E is plenty strong and is made to mate with those engines. They are cheap and the harness that you will have to buy for the engine will plug right in. Nothing extra to buy or program. I paid $450 for a newly rebuilt 4l60 without a core. OD is worth it. Tons of transfer case options and easily adaptable to most jeep cases.
From one who has done it. I fully support any decision that starts with one of the 4.8, 5.3, 6.0 GM motors.
Tons of aftermarket for the motor, easy to work on, easy to program, easy to install. Nearly bulletproof.
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1) For a sudden recovery you can slam the shifter from 1st to reverse without hunting or shifting into park by mistake
Jim, in case you have not seen or heard of this concept, if you are about to go head over heels on a climb, you can slam the tranny into reverse and get on the gas to pull the vehicle back to where the head will not come over the heels.
I had not heard of this before now. That seems like a really good safety feature to have. This is something I'll keep in mind. My concern with this is always knowing it's there and pushing the jeep more than I should because I've got that option. I suppose that then becomes an exercise in discipline. Thanks for the explanation Clark.
TH350 is plenty strong for what we do, esp. if it has the K case. Tripp's correct about the OD. It will be cheaper than a computer controlled tranny both to buy and to integrate. With a buggy where you don't worry about all the JK sensors and gauges, a 4L80 makes more sense. Otherwise the harness will be $$$.
What is the K case? As this will be as much of a budget build as possible that sounds like a good option. Also, there will be very few if any sensors or gauges to deal with in this build.
If you are going LS family then dont be scared of the electronic trans. 4l60E is plenty strong and is made to mate with those engines. They are cheap and the harness that you will have to buy for the engine will plug right in. Nothing extra to buy or program. I paid $450 for a newly rebuilt 4l60 without a core. OD is worth it. Tons of transfer case options and easily adaptable to most jeep cases.
From one who has done it. I fully support any decision that starts with one of the 4.8, 5.3, 6.0 GM motors.
Tons of aftermarket for the motor, easy to work on, easy to program, easy to install. Nearly bulletproof.
I'm not so much scared of the electronic trans as I am the affordability of an electronic trans, which it seems they seem to be somewhat affordable. Thanks Matt.
It seems like everyone completely supports the LS motors. Is there a range of years they are best found? Or vehicles? Does there happen to be any model/variant that was a dud/recalled and I should stray away from? It also seems like the consensus is to select a transmission geared for the street in high but have the durability? to handle what we do off road. Is there a difference in strength in transmissions? I.E. if one is running D44s front and rear with 35's vs. running tons and 42's? Or is it strength of the transmission to hold up to the motor output?
Also, slightly off topic, what are everyone's thoughts on diesel vs. gas? I had this idea of having a turbo diesel engine vs. gas. I know that most diesel motors are more expensive, and was told they can be heavier, but that's about the extent of my knowledge.
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On my buggy the O2 sensors are the only pollution-related ones that are installed and reported by the ECM.
The LQ9 engine is from 2007, so there are a number of later-year models. Since you'd likely be getting one from a wrecked GM vehicle you may well find a newer model. In your shoes I'd look for one with decent mileage and a good price. Ones that are bought from salvage yards likely are missing accessories. A "fresh kill" engine will be complete. I know a guy who specializes in fresh kills and who warranties his engines.
You also need to choose between throttles that are drive-by-wire or via cable. My intake uses a cable, but DBW systems are supposed to be quite reliable. Obviously getting the proper pedal assembly is needed.
On my rig I installed a Camaro oil pan to increase ground clearance. The truck oil pans are pretty deep. With a shallow pan consider an oil accumulator as an addition. This device ensures that the engine has enough oil when in a steep nose up attitude where the pickup in the oil pan may be inoperative.
Most of the offroad diesel rigs I've seen use engines from delivery trucks (e.g., 4BT). Heavy with a lot of torque. Marty (bjeep) can offer advice on that.
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Budget and diesel conversion don't work together. Very expensive, and even more so if you can't fab everything.
Th350 or 400 don't have od. Go with a 4l80 in stock form will be fine with a stock 6.0 or 5.3. You should be able to buy those together.
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Kirk, I take it a "fresh kill" engine is an engine just pulled from a wrecked vehicle? Once I being seriously looking for an engine I'll contact you about your guy. I'll take all the help I can get. Those are good pointers to keep in mind about the mileage and salvage yards. I'm going to have to google the throttle systems you mentioned to better understand what they are and their differences. I've actually heard about the oil pan problem/solution before, perhaps from you. I hadn't thought about the oil accumulator though, good to know. I'll contact Marty and get his .02 on diesel powered rigs. Thanks for all the help.
Tripp, when you say diesel conversion, do you mean conversion, or just putting a diesel setup into a vehicle? Essentially I'll be replacing the stock drive train so I didn't think it mattered if it was gas or diesel.
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Ls motors are good for 300k miles so mileage isn't a big deal. Gen 3 is drive by cable, and Gen 4 is drive by wire. I had drive by cable and now I have drive by wire. I dbr due to a particular motor I wanted. Gen 4 make a little more power but both are good.