Georgia Trail Riders Forum
CLASSIFIEDS => Wanted => Topic started by: LUVNMY06TJ on November 25, 2013, 07:23:30 AM
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After Windrock, it's clear I'm in need of some lockers, so I'm looking for a locker for my front and rear differential. If anyone is looking to upgrade and needs to get rid of their entry level locker, let me know. I'm running stock differentials.
Front: D30
Rear: D35
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http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/axles-tires-wheels-sale/1533922-jeep-tj-electric-locker-axels.html
From what I've read, if you get the D35 locker, you will need the chromoly shafts.
This may draw some flack, but I would strongly consider looking for a built Ford 8.8 axle rather than building up the D35. Keep a watchful (and patient) eye on hardlinecrawlers.com and pirate4x4.com classifieds...an axle setup (maybe a front and rear combo) will present itself, but it may take a while and may be a bit of trouble to obtain (if all you have is the Jeep, moving axles from one location to another will be interesting).
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Just get a lunchbox locker for the front, and defer the rear until you upgrade the D35. Putting $ into a stock D35 is a waste.
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Agreed with clark and kvom. You will be pleasantly surprised with what a front locker by itself will do. I think I saw a stock 8.8 on craigslist for cheap. But just don't waste money on the 35.
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(Because I don't know how to quote and reply to everyone...)
Clark: I appreciate the link and the insight on the required upgrade.
kvom and cudruln: I appreciate the advice for the front locker.
Trying to understand a little better, I've heard that a D35 is not a good diff., why is that? And why would I need to upgrade the axle shafts? Or does the answer to the second question answer the first?
My hesitation with just a lunch box is if I end up in a situation where my rear diff goes out, or I break my rear drive shaft/u-joint on the trail, how do I get back? Where if I get a selectable, I can still drive home. (Is that correct thinking?)
Also, reading other posts on here, it seems that I can only go so big with tires before having to upgrade diff/axles, I am trying to get a used one at a decent price saving me some money if I end up having to upgrade the whole setup. (This is why I was looking for someones used level entry locker).
Am I being too cheap? Or is this a reasonable thought process? I appreciate the feedback, again, as I don't know much and am trying to learn. Thanks.
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The axle shafts are like toothpicks. Locker is just added stress on the axles. Unfortunately it doesnt take much to snap a D35 shaft in stock form and without spares this axle will leave you stranded. The D30 is stronger and as long as you plan on running no larger than 35" tires. Its ok to invest some money in the front. To spend on the rear is a waste of money, when you could put it to something better.
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I saw this on another Forum
Use the Lokka wizard at Lokka.com to select your model and enter the voucher code
Black2013
Some common models of Jeep 4x4 locker sale pricing
$179 - Lokka Diff Locker, Jeep Dana 30
$198 - Lokka Diff Locker, Jeep Dana 35 including heavy duty crosspin upgrade
$198 - Lokka Diff Locker, Jeep and Ford Dana44
$199 - Lokka Diff Locker, Jeep AMC20
$209 - Lokka Diff Locker, Jeep Chrysler 8.25
All prices include USA delivery
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The rear axle is c clipped. If you break one of weak shafts, the shaft will walk out while driving. To do a proper upgrade on the D35 will cost of 1k. Chromoly shafts with the c clip eliminater. In other words an 8.8 is cheaper, stronger, and better choice over putting money into the 35. Nothing wrong with driving a 35 on the street but its not up to wheeling at all.
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If you are looking for a solution now I have a brand new in the box Super 35 kit with 30 spline chromoly shafts and Detroit locker. Axle shafts are the same size as a Dana 44 with the added strength of chromoly. I also have a stock TJ Dana 44 that only has 700 original miles on it. 3.73 gears and limited slip.
$750 for either one.
Email me at Rockjock15@aol.com
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Good solutions.
What gears do you have now?
Sent off camber
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If you are looking for a solution now I have a brand new in the box Super 35 kit with 30 spline chromoly shafts and Detroit locker. Axle shafts are the same size as a Dana 44 with the added strength of chromoly. I also have a stock TJ Dana 44 that only has 700 original miles on it. 3.73 gears and limited slip.
$750 for either one.
Email me at Rockjock15@aol.com
Is the Super 35 superior or something else?
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I believe it is Superior stuff.
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(Still don't know how to quote/reply to multiple people at one time...)
Matt: I appreciate the insight into the D35. Now I understand why people think so poorly of that setup, because it's simply a poor setup (for wheeling). And at this point in time I don't plan on going larger than 35" tires. I also appreciate the answer to that inquiry.
Jeepster: Wow! I had no idea I could get a locker for that price. Thanks for the link. Now granted, I'll do my research first before spending that kind of money, but that's still one more resource I didn't have before.
Mortalis: I also thank you for the explanation. I think they mentioned the axle walking out at the 101 class at All South. Really, that's the last thing I want; to be in a precarious off-camber scenario and my wheel walks off...
Rockjock: I appreciate the offer. I'll keep it in mind. I'm in the asking and learning phase right now, but I'm close to making a decision. I'd say 30-45 days close. Off topic, did you still have that front bumper for the TJ that you posted a while back?
Doug: I am running stock 3.07 gears. And you raise another good point. As I progress in tire size, I know that re-gearing/upgrade diff setup will be needed. I'm assuming right now I can keep my current setup (running 33"s) with the aforementioned gear/diff setup and get a decently priced locker? (Obviously, putting a locker in the D35 would require some adjustments/upgrades; already mentioned)
My next question, aside from the quality of the gears/axle shafts in a differential/axle setup, what makes one diff setup stronger than another?
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Jim, what is your 2 year build goal regarding tire size? Do you have a time frame for running with the hardcore group? Do you have a build budget (no pressure to share it, but it helps with setting priorities and selecting options)?
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Clark, to be honest I haven't really set any goals that coincided with a timeline. I feel like 35" tires would be sufficient with a belly up. As for the hardcore group, as I grow more comfortable with the capability of my jeep, and my own experience, I would be more inclined to run with that group. I think my biggest hesitation that holds me back is the lack of protection underneath. As for a budget, I also had not yet determined one. I know that things always cost more than planned. I'm taking it one part/upgrade at a time. With upgrades, my stance is this: if I can do it myself and save labor I will, if I can design and build it myself to save on over priced parts I will, and if I can by any means save money in the process without compromising quality, I will.
Does that answer your questions? And would it help for me to have a timed goal for upgrades? Tire size?
I appreciate the questions. I really hadn't thought about this until you asked.
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Jim, yes, everything seems to cost more than planned...I am well over budget at this point, but they keep selling stuff to me :)
The timing and end-goal matters since it will determine how long you can live with certain things and whether you go for the incremental approach of upgrades/repairs versus the fully committed approach of never building/buying the same part twice.
As an example, suppose you currently have 33's on a D30/D35 setup with 3.07 gears running open/open (hard to imagine...right). Now suppose you decide you want to run in the hardcore group within 6 months and go to 35's within 18 months. You really should have a lockers in front and rear to run with the hardcore group, so let's assume you will get lockers to handle that situation. It is highly suggested that you not invest time, nor money, in the D35 and it is known that 3.07s with 35s will be miserable (I recall it being miserable with 33s). Research indicates a locked D30 with stock shafts will not support the 35s, so plan on an upgrade up front too. Additionally, there are mixed message on the Internet regarding the ability for the D30 standard carrier to support a lunchbox locker and 35s, so we'll assume you need a full case locker. Here are possible options to deal with this plan, based on the approaches mentioned earlier:
Incremental Approach:
1) Lunchbox locker in D30 (Labor = your time; Parts = $250)
2) Super35 Kit in the rear with lunchbox locker (labor = your time; Parts = $750)
3) time passes, fifth gear on the highway is still a distant memory...12 months later move on to #4
4) Regear D30 to something in the 4.xx area with a full case locker; perhaps upgrade to high pinion D30 while you are doing upgrades; upgrade axle shafts to chromoly (4.56, 4.88) (labor = $400; parts = $1350)
5) Acquire new rear axle, new mounting brackets, new locker, and regear it to same as D30 (4.xx) (Labor = $800; Parts = $900)
6) Sell used Super35 rear setup to recoup some of the cost of the new axle setup ($300???)
7) Sell used D30 lunchbox locker ($100???)
8) Buy new 35" tires ($900)
Fully Committed Approach:
1) Full case locker in the D30 with regear to 4.xx; upgrade axle shafts to chromoly (Labor = $400; Parts = $1350)
2) Acquire new rear axle, new mounting brackets, new locker, and regear it to same as D30 (4.xx) (Labor = $800; Parts = $900)
3) time passes, you are loving the pep of the 4.xx gears in the meantime...12 months later move on to #4
4) Buy new 35" tires ($900)
EDIT (Questionable when written): Here is where you can start getting dividends on your investment...if you can time the belly up with the rear axle build, you can possible avoid having to buy adjustable control arms to support the pinion angle adjustment need by the SYE and new drive shaft. I stated "possibly avoid..." because based on my experience, the work to make the drive line vibration free without adjustable control arms would have to be fantastic (i.e., a true professional) since the slightest bit of incorrect angle adjustment will cause a vibration.
It should also be noted that with the 35s you should upgrade the brakes and steering components.
With unlimited budget, you should strongly consider becoming fully committed, but it is understandable to go incrementally towards your ultimate build goal.
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With an sye in the rear and belly up you will need adjustable control arms. Havent seen a situation where that can be avoided and set up properly.
Make a goal. Everything you buy needs to be a step toward that goal. No internment buys as that will only cost your more.
Research research and then ask question. That way you can better understand.
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What makes axles stronger is size and make up of components.
As ring and pinion gears increase in size, so do the tubes and axles for the most part.
I asked about your current gears because the 373 44 axle rock jock offered is nice but you would have to regard your other axle to match.
The lunch box style lockers are inexpensive and don't require a gear setup so they are also inexpensive to install but are not the best choice for a daily driver as you cannot turn them off. That is ok in the front because when you are not in 4wd it is off, but never off in the rear so a selectable is more desirable there for a daily driver.
It is a process with a lot of options and cost much less in the long run of you begin with the end in mind and only do things once.
I believe a daily driver tj to be perfect on locked 44s, 4.88s, and 35s.
Sent off camber
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Ok. So, what you guys said about goal setting makes sense especially to my wallet. I think I'm going to go with the fully committed approach. With that in mind, I've got a lot more google-ing to do, and questions to ask. It really does make too much sense to do everything all at once, especially when doing gears/lockers. Not to mention all of the associated/affected parts that have to be modified because of one change or another. I'm guessing I should start with what tire size do I want? It seems that fact alone determines many other things.
With that being said, I think unless I get a steal on a lunchbox locker for the D30, I'm going to hold off on lockers. I'm going to plan my build, then build it. In the meantime I'll get more seat time, save as much money for my build and google/ask as many questions as possible until I fully understand what I want.
Last question for now, what is an SYE?
Doug: thanks for helping me to understand the axle/diff setup.
And again, I really appreciate the knowledge and suggestions.
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Sye eliminates the yoke slip connection on the back of the transfer case.
It can slip off and fall off in a big flex.
It changes it to a mechanical connection with a flange and ujoints and straps, and with a slip joint in the middle of the drive shaft that allows for the flexing.
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Ah, ok. That kind of makes me wonder why it would put on there to begin with? Though I suppose they don't build jeeps stock for rock crawling...
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A SYE is a slip yoke eliminator...but it is an incorrect term for what is happening in reality, but never the less, it is what everyone calls it. A SYE should probably be called a SYR (slip yoke relocator) or something like that.
If you look at your rear drive shaft, you will see that it is a solid piece of metal with a couple of u-joints and a female end at the transfer case end. At the transfer case, the drive shaft (female) slides over the transfer case output shaft (male) and creates what is termed a 'slip yoke'. As your rear axle moves up and down, it causes the drive shaft to slide in and out over the transfer case output shaft. What the SYE does is move the slip yoke from being at the transfer case and puts it in the drive shaft. A SYE will change the connection at the transfer case from a slip yoke to a U-joint. That means you will need a new drive shaft that has the slip yoke built into it (look at your front drive shaft to see one, since they used that on the front drive shafts).
The reason you may need a SYE is if you muck with the angle of the drive shaft too much it will cause the female part on the drive shaft to bind on the transfer case output shaft. You can muck with the angle of the drive shaft in a couple of ways: 1) you do a suspension lift which lifts the frame (to which the transfer case is ultimately attached) which causes the angle to change (some suspension lifts are not significant enough to cause a problem; some suspension lifts will come with spacers to drop the skid plate down which will reduce the drive shaft angle); 2) you do a tummy tuck which raises the transfer case and thus causes the angle to change.
Since a SYE needs a new drive shaft, this is another one of those things where you want to plan out all of your upgrades to make sure you are not going to have to buy another drive shaft when you make another upgrade and to make sure you have all of your money lined up...depending on your plan. Doing a SYE requires three things to be purchased: SYE kit (can be a hack-n-tap or a full SYE), a new drive shaft, and adjustable control arms. If you think you want a tummy tuck (LCOG ground clearance) and a suspension lift (larger tires), you probably want to do them at the time you do the SYE so you can get an accurate final measurement for the drive shaft. The guys at Tom Wood's made what seemed to me to be a big deal over getting an accurate measurement down to the nearest 1/8". I found it odd that a drive shaft with a 4" stroke would be at risk over 1/8" variance, but they were serious about me getting the measurement accurate. You may find that another shop will tell you that once you get their shaft you can do other modifications without having to have a new drive shaft.
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SYE probably got it's name from removing the slip yoke only at the case.
Good info though.!
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I didn't read everyones response but i have an Aussie locker in the front of my xj that will be coming out in the next week or so.
That super 35 kit for 750 is a smokin deal! I ran that kit in my old tj on 37s for a long time.
TAPATALK
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If you are looking for a solution now I have a brand new in the box Super 35 kit with 30 spline chromoly shafts and Detroit locker. Axle shafts are the same size as a Dana 44 with the added strength of chromoly. I also have a stock TJ Dana 44 that only has 700 original miles on it. 3.73 gears and limited slip.
$750 for either one.
Email me at Rockjock15@aol.com
I might be interested in the dana 44. I'll send you an email.
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A SYE is a slip yoke eliminator...but it is an incorrect term for what is happening in reality, but never the less, it is what everyone calls it. A SYE should probably be called a SYR (slip yoke relocator) or something like that.
If you look at your rear drive shaft, you will see that it is a solid piece of metal with a couple of u-joints and a female end at the transfer case end. At the transfer case, the drive shaft (female) slides over the transfer case output shaft (male) and creates what is termed a 'slip yoke'. As your rear axle moves up and down, it causes the drive shaft to slide in and out over the transfer case output shaft. What the SYE does is move the slip yoke from being at the transfer case and puts it in the drive shaft. A SYE will change the connection at the transfer case from a slip yoke to a U-joint. That means you will need a new drive shaft that has the slip yoke built into it (look at your front drive shaft to see one, since they used that on the front drive shafts).
The reason you may need a SYE is if you muck with the angle of the drive shaft too much it will cause the female part on the drive shaft to bind on the transfer case output shaft. You can muck with the angle of the drive shaft in a couple of ways: 1) you do a suspension lift which lifts the frame (to which the transfer case is ultimately attached) which causes the angle to change (some suspension lifts are not significant enough to cause a problem; some suspension lifts will come with spacers to drop the skid plate down which will reduce the drive shaft angle); 2) you do a tummy tuck which raises the transfer case and thus causes the angle to change.
Since a SYE needs a new drive shaft, this is another one of those things where you want to plan out all of your upgrades to make sure you are not going to have to buy another drive shaft when you make another upgrade and to make sure you have all of your money lined up...depending on your plan. Doing a SYE requires three things to be purchased: SYE kit (can be a hack-n-tap or a full SYE), a new drive shaft, and adjustable control arms. If you think you want a tummy tuck (LCOG ground clearance) and a suspension lift (larger tires), you probably want to do them at the time you do the SYE so you can get an accurate final measurement for the drive shaft. The guys at Tom Wood's made what seemed to me to be a big deal over getting an accurate measurement down to the nearest 1/8". I found it odd that a drive shaft with a 4" stroke would be at risk over 1/8" variance, but they were serious about me getting the measurement accurate. You may find that another shop will tell you that once you get their shaft you can do other modifications without having to have a new drive shaft.
Ok, definitely helpful. I knew that changing the angle of the drive shaft too much would require that I also change out the stock drive shaft to minimize the additional stress placed on it, and to help minimize the vibration. I didn't think the variance would matter that much, especially since there was that much stroke available.
As I will be going to 35" tires, doing a belly up, a suspension lift, upgrading at least the rear diff, I'll be sure to include the drive shaft in that as well. Do most aftermarket drive shafts come with an SYE? I wonder if the variance really matters down to an 1/8"?
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I didn't read everyones response but i have an Aussie locker in the front of my xj that will be coming out in the next week or so.
That super 35 kit for 750 is a smokin deal! I ran that kit in my old tj on 37s for a long time.
TAPATALK
I'm assuming that Aussie locker would fit in my TJ? How much are you willing to part with that for?
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You have to do the sye and then get your drive shaft. Not the other way around.
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