Post by: Trailabite on November 13, 2019, 09:06:42 AM
Post by: Blue J on November 13, 2019, 10:45:58 AM
Post by: flashover101 on November 13, 2019, 12:48:18 PM
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Post by: Trailabite on November 13, 2019, 01:07:51 PM
Post by: 8lugLJ on November 13, 2019, 04:06:30 PM
This is for the Jeep truck. I'm leaning towards 6.17's or 7.17 gear ratio. I don't plan on driving it too much on the road, but when I do I would like to be able to do at least 55 mph under 6k rpm lol. I did run the numbers on a gear calculator and looks like with the over drive gear in the 700r4 and running 42" tires it should run around 2200 rpm's at 55 and it would give me a crawl ratio around 75:1.
what axles are you going to run that will allow for that deep of a gear?
Post by: Trailabite on November 13, 2019, 04:08:53 PM
This is for the Jeep truck. I'm leaning towards 6.17's or 7.17 gear ratio. I don't plan on driving it too much on the road, but when I do I would like to be able to do at least 55 mph under 6k rpm lol. I did run the numbers on a gear calculator and looks like with the over drive gear in the 700r4 and running 42" tires it should run around 2200 rpm's at 55 and it would give me a crawl ratio around 75:1.
what axles are you going to run that will allow for that deep of a gear?
D60 up front and a D70 at the other end.
Post by: 8lugLJ on November 13, 2019, 04:11:21 PM
This is for the Jeep truck. I'm leaning towards 6.17's or 7.17 gear ratio. I don't plan on driving it too much on the road, but when I do I would like to be able to do at least 55 mph under 6k rpm lol. I did run the numbers on a gear calculator and looks like with the over drive gear in the 700r4 and running 42" tires it should run around 2200 rpm's at 55 and it would give me a crawl ratio around 75:1.
what axles are you going to run that will allow for that deep of a gear?
D60 up front and a D70 at the other end.
cool. i had no idea you could run that deep in a D60. Is it a LP only thing? Anyways, I run my 5.38s on the street (when it sees pavement) and just keep the OD off.
Post by: Trailabite on November 13, 2019, 04:21:20 PM
Post by: Anvilsam on November 13, 2019, 04:24:11 PM
Post by: Trailabite on November 13, 2019, 04:36:59 PM
FWIW my crawl ratio is right at 75 in first gear and most times it seems a little low for me so i end up doing most stuff in second.
If I go with 5.38's the crawl ratio is around 64 and change.
Post by: Anvilsam on November 13, 2019, 04:44:48 PM
How many Hp’s?FWIW my crawl ratio is right at 75 in first gear and most times it seems a little low for me so i end up doing most stuff in second.
If I go with 5.38's the crawl ratio is around 64 and change.
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Post by: Trailabite on November 13, 2019, 04:59:15 PM
How many Hp’s?FWIW my crawl ratio is right at 75 in first gear and most times it seems a little low for me so i end up doing most stuff in second.
If I go with 5.38's the crawl ratio is around 64 and change.
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290 maybe 300
Post by: Anvilsam on November 13, 2019, 05:22:20 PM
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Post by: tcdawg on November 13, 2019, 05:52:53 PM
Researching: D60 LP 4.88 ring and pinion weighs 18 lbs, 7.17 weighs 26 lbs.
That’s a lot less steel in there....and I’ve seen you on the skinny pedal.
Less steel
Less strength
More
Post by: tcdawg on November 13, 2019, 06:02:03 PM
FWIW my crawl ratio is right at 75 in first gear and most times it seems a little low for me so i end up doing most stuff in second.
If I go with 5.38's the crawl ratio is around 64 and change.
I think you would like that 64
My crawl ratio is either 58 in 2.7:1
Or, 81 in 3.8:1
I run mostly in 2.7 and if I need more finesse go to 3.8. Your number is kind of in the middle.
If I’m behind Clark I go to 10:1 ...that’s a ridiculous 215 crawl ratio
Post by: Trailabite on November 13, 2019, 06:18:04 PM
Are you running an Atlas?FWIW my crawl ratio is right at 75 in first gear and most times it seems a little low for me so i end up doing most stuff in second.
If I go with 5.38's the crawl ratio is around 64 and change.
I think you would like that 64
My crawl ratio is either 58 in 2.7:1
Or, 81 in 3.8:1
I run mostly in 2.7 and if I need more finesse go to 3.8. Your number is kind of in the middle.
If I’m behind Clark I go TL 10:1 ...that’s a ridiculous 215 crawl ratio
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Post by: tcdawg on November 13, 2019, 06:26:58 PM
Are you running an Atlas?FWIW my crawl ratio is right at 75 in first gear and most times it seems a little low for me so i end up doing most stuff in second.
If I go with 5.38's the crawl ratio is around 64 and change.
I think you would like that 64
My crawl ratio is either 58 in 2.7:1
Or, 81 in 3.8:1
I run mostly in 2.7 and if I need more finesse go to 3.8. Your number is kind of in the middle.
If I’m behind Clark I go TL 10:1 ...that’s a ridiculous 215 crawl ratio
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Yes
A 4 speed
Post by: Trailabite on November 14, 2019, 09:05:34 AM
Are you running an Atlas?FWIW my crawl ratio is right at 75 in first gear and most times it seems a little low for me so i end up doing most stuff in second.
If I go with 5.38's the crawl ratio is around 64 and change.
I think you would like that 64
My crawl ratio is either 58 in 2.7:1
Or, 81 in 3.8:1
I run mostly in 2.7 and if I need more finesse go to 3.8. Your number is kind of in the middle.
If I’m behind Clark I go TL 10:1 ...that’s a ridiculous 215 crawl ratio
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Yes
A 4 speed
Ok, I was trying to do the math and was I like how in the heck is he getting these numbers lol. I will probably just stick with the 5.38 gears. It sounds like the 6.17/7.17 gears are meant to be driven at higher than crawling speeds for any distance. They're good in mud drags for a quick short spurt. With the 5.38 gears this would be close to my old red TJ, the crawl ratio on it is around 50:1.
Post by: Anvilsam on November 14, 2019, 09:37:09 AM
Are you running an Atlas?FWIW my crawl ratio is right at 75 in first gear and most times it seems a little low for me so i end up doing most stuff in second.
If I go with 5.38's the crawl ratio is around 64 and change.
I think you would like that 64
My crawl ratio is either 58 in 2.7:1
Or, 81 in 3.8:1
I run mostly in 2.7 and if I need more finesse go to 3.8. Your number is kind of in the middle.
If I’m behind Clark I go TL 10:1 ...that’s a ridiculous 215 crawl ratio
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
Yes
A 4 speed
Ok, I was trying to do the math and was I like how in the heck is he getting these numbers lol. I will probably just stick with the 5.38 gears. It sounds like the 6.17/7.17 gears are meant to be driven at higher than crawling speeds for any distance. They're good in mud drags for a quick short spurt. With the 5.38 gears this would be close to my old red TJ, the crawl ratio on it is around 50:1.
Is 50:1 with both tcases in low?
Post by: tjsahara00 on November 14, 2019, 09:39:15 AM
Post by: TravisMac on November 14, 2019, 09:50:19 AM
Remember that automatics numbers are lowerNot my 42rle. That POS has like a 2.8:1 first gear vs. 4.0 in the manual from the same year
Post by: tjsahara00 on November 14, 2019, 10:13:31 AM
Post by: Anvilsam on November 14, 2019, 11:52:50 AM
overall crawl ratio is lower is what I meantI’m confused as to how?
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Post by: Big Dave on November 14, 2019, 12:12:18 PM
overall crawl ratio is lower is what I meantI’m confused as to how?
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#metoo
Post by: tjsahara00 on November 14, 2019, 12:14:17 PM
automatic transmission has lower than
manuel transmission.
Maybe I'm not considering those fancy Atlas things...
Post by: bjeep on November 14, 2019, 12:14:37 PM
overall crawl ratio is lower is what I meantI’m confused as to how?
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The converter in a auto makes the difference. Some say it is 7 to 1 by it's self.
Post by: Big Dave on November 14, 2019, 12:16:21 PM
Thank you for the clarity. I always knew a auto was easier on parts because it had less shock load.overall crawl ratio is lower is what I meantI’m confused as to how?
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The converter in a auto makes the difference. Some say it is 7 to 1 by it's self.
Post by: Mortalis5509 on November 14, 2019, 12:46:05 PM
What size tires are you running again? 5.13' to 5.38's will probably be what you need.
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Post by: tcdawg on November 14, 2019, 01:21:56 PM
Remember that automatics numbers are lowerNot my 42rle. That POS has like a 2.8:1 first gear vs. 4.0 in the manual from the same year
1st gear in my 6L80 is 4.03:1
Post by: Mortalis5509 on November 14, 2019, 01:25:31 PM
What gears do you have in the axle?Remember that automatics numbers are lowerNot my 42rle. That POS has like a 2.8:1 first gear vs. 4.0 in the manual from the same year
1st gear in my 6L80 is 4.03:1
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Post by: Anvilsam on November 14, 2019, 01:26:10 PM
Run the numbers to get the crawl ratio
automatic transmission has lower than
manuel transmission.
Maybe I'm not considering those fancy Atlas things...
Are you considering the actual gear ratio also? With both first gears being the same i just don't see how this works.
Post by: TravisMac on November 14, 2019, 01:39:04 PM
5.38What gears do you have in the axle?Remember that automatics numbers are lowerNot my 42rle. That POS has like a 2.8:1 first gear vs. 4.0 in the manual from the same year
1st gear in my 6L80 is 4.03:1
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Post by: Mortalis5509 on November 14, 2019, 01:59:22 PM
I meant for the 6l80?5.38What gears do you have in the axle?Remember that automatics numbers are lowerNot my 42rle. That POS has like a 2.8:1 first gear vs. 4.0 in the manual from the same year
1st gear in my 6L80 is 4.03:1
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Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
Post by: tjsahara00 on November 14, 2019, 02:34:57 PM
Run the numbers to get the crawl ratio
automatic transmission has lower than
manuel transmission.
Maybe I'm not considering those fancy Atlas things...
Are you considering the actual gear ratio also? With both first gears being the same i just don't see how this works.
Good Lord I don't even wheel anymore...
Every time I went and figured my crawl ratio in my TJ using the formula on the internet it was half of what alot of the other guys had. I read where some said to practically double the crawl ratio in a automatic to get a more equalizing numberif what others with stick's got.
Post by: clark123456 on November 14, 2019, 02:57:40 PM
If I slip my clutch, does that double my ratio?Run the numbers to get the crawl ratio
automatic transmission has lower than
manuel transmission.
Maybe I'm not considering those fancy Atlas things...
Are you considering the actual gear ratio also? With both first gears being the same i just don't see how this works.
Good Lord I don't even wheel anymore...
Every time I went and figured my crawl ratio in my TJ using the formula on the internet it was half of what alot of the other guys had. I read where some said to practically double the crawl ratio in a automatic to get a more equalizing numberif what others with stick's got.
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Post by: tjsahara00 on November 14, 2019, 02:58:40 PM
Post by: Trailabite on November 14, 2019, 03:11:01 PM
If I slip my clutch, does that double my ratio?Run the numbers to get the crawl ratio
automatic transmission has lower than
manuel transmission.
Maybe I'm not considering those fancy Atlas things...
Are you considering the actual gear ratio also? With both first gears being the same i just don't see how this works.
Good Lord I don't even wheel anymore...
Every time I went and figured my crawl ratio in my TJ using the formula on the internet it was half of what alot of the other guys had. I read where some said to practically double the crawl ratio in a automatic to get a more equalizing numberif what others with stick's got.
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Yes, that's exactly how it works. And it goes up as the engine spins faster at the same time......
Post by: Scott F. on November 14, 2019, 06:57:48 PM
“ The main characteristic of a torque converter is its ability to multiply torque when the output rotational speed is so low that it allows the fluid coming off the curved vanes of the turbine to be deflected off the stator while it is locked against its one-way clutch, thus providing the equivalent of a reduction gear. This is a feature beyond that of the simple fluid coupling, which can match rotational speed but does not multiply torque, thus reduces power.”
Post by: Big Dave on November 14, 2019, 07:24:07 PM
@tjsahara00 you’re not losing it. Autos do have a lower effective ratio due to torque multiplication that occurs before the converter stalls. I’d say it closer to 2-2.5, meaning if your auto 1st gear is 2.5:1 then it will feel similar to a manual with a 5:1 first gear. Cut and paste below:Sweet!!
“ The main characteristic of a torque converter is its ability to multiply torque when the output rotational speed is so low that it allows the fluid coming off the curved vanes of the turbine to be deflected off the stator while it is locked against its one-way clutch, thus providing the equivalent of a reduction gear. This is a feature beyond that of the simple fluid coupling, which can match rotational speed but does not multiply torque, thus reduces power.”
I went from a 59:1 to a 107:1 crawl ratio.
Post by: patman on November 14, 2019, 10:14:30 PM
Stator --- the stator can be described as the "brain" of the torque converter, although the stator is by no means the sole determiner of converter function and characteristics. The stator, which changes fluid flow between the turbine and pump, is what makes a torque converter a torque converter (multiplier) and not a fluid coupler.
With the stator removed, however, it will retain none of its torque multiplying effect. In order for the stator to function properly the sprag must work as designed: (1) It must hold the stator perfectly still (locked in place) while the converter is still in stall mode (slow relative turbine speed to the impeller pump speed) and (2) allow the stator to spin with the rest of the converter after the turbine speed approaches the pump speed. This allows for more efficient and less restrictive fluid flow.
The sprag is a one-way mechanical clutch mounted on races and fits inside the stator while the inner race splines onto the stator support of the transmission. The torque multiplier effect means that a vehicle equipped with an automatic transmission and torque converter will output more torque to the drive wheels than the engine is actually producing. This occurs while the converter is in its "stall mode" (when the turbine is spinning considerably slower than the pump) and during vehicle acceleration. Torque multiplication rapidly decreases until it reaches a ratio of 1:1 (no torque increase over crankshaft torque.) A typical torque converter will have a torque multiplication ratio in the area of 2.5:1. The main point to remember is that all properly functioning torque converters do indeed multiply torque during initial acceleration. The more drastic the change in fluid path caused by the stator from its "natural" return path, the higher the torque multiplication ratio a given converter will have. Torque multiplication does not occur with a manual transmission clutch and pressure plate; hence the need for heavy flywheels, very high numerical gear ratios, and high launch rpm. A more detailed discussion of torque multiplication can get very confusing to the layman as high multiplication ratios can be easily considered the best choice when in fact more variables must be included in the decision. Remember, the ratio is still a factor of the engine torque in the relevant range of the torque converter stall speed, i.e.: a converter with a multiplication ratio of 2.5:1 that stalls 3000 rpm will produce 500 ft.-lbs. of torque at the instance of full throttle acceleration if its coupled to an engine producing 200 ft.-lbs. of torque at 3000 rpm. However, if this same engine produces 300 ft.-lbs. of torque at 4000 rpm, we would be better off with a converter that stalled 4000 rpm with only a 2.0:1 torque multiplication ratio, i.e.: 300 x 2.0 = 600 ft.-lbs. at initial acceleration. Of course it would be better yet to have a 2.5:1 ratio with the 4000 rpm in this example (provided his combination still allows the suspension to work and the tires don't spin.) This is just a brief overview as the actual scenarios are endless.
Post by: Trailabite on November 15, 2019, 06:45:55 AM
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Post by: lt99ls1 on November 15, 2019, 08:05:37 AM
^Good stuffx2! On the white TJI had 40s and 5.38s and loved it on the trail was a little high for 70mph on the street. On the LJ I have 5.13's and 42s and it seemed about right for both but not perfect. Kind of hoping the LS cures the not perfect part.
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Post by: tjsahara00 on November 15, 2019, 09:24:45 AM