Georgia Trail Riders Forum
MEMBERS DISCUSSION AREA => General Discussion => Topic started by: Trailabite on April 23, 2011, 02:00:02 PM
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I found this info on another site - has anyone on here been watching this unfold? Sounds bad a$$ to me.
Driving home from moab. Had an amazing meeting last night with industry leaders, koh racers, current sponsors, and a couple long time trail guys.
The purpose of this expansion is two fold, expand racing opportunities to new potential racers and give vendors and manufacturers an opportunity to prove their worth in a direct comparison market.
This wont be a clunker race. This will be an opportunity to be a professional racer at a budget you feel comfortable with. We debated the rules for several hours but the overriding principle was to limit loopholes where teams would get outspent rather than outraced.
I am proud of my contributions to the land use fight over the last 10 years. I will continue to donate time, leadership, and money to the cause. But, koh costs 45k in BLM fees alone. This is a business its how I and 3 other people feed their families. I also wouldn't dream of having someone donate or crush the car they've spent money and a lifetime of dreams building.
I'll publish comprehensive rules when im on a real computer. But here are the basics....
Stock is just that stock
Factory suspension configuration. Homebuilt or commercial upgrades acceptable.
Full body. Full frame
Hydro assist accepatable
35" dot tires
Axle and tcase upgrades acceptable
Motor available from factory in model and year
No bypasses allowed
Safety items similar to the big race
Stock mod requires a frame between the axles.
Bypasses allowed
Motor swaps allowed
37" dot tires
More specifc rules soon
Entry fee in the 700 range
Purse paid down 3 spots. Winner races on Friday
Course harder than utv but doable between 75 and 100 miles.
Bring it
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That would be awesome. {toast}
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A funny read for you, with so many people trying to make the rules fit their rig, rather than being willing to change their rigs for the rules.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=973059
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A funny read for you, with so many people trying to make the rules fit their rig, rather than being willing to change their rigs for the rules.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=973059
Haha, good stuff.
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Any thought on what would be good choice as a stocker? I'm thinking along the lines of an 87 waggy. They have decent axles and come with a V8.
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A V8 isn't going to be worth too much in the Dessert section with leaf springs, without a lot of work. I would say the LJ's, Grand cherokees, and xj's will be the dominant choices for Stock class. Lj's are coil sprung front and rear, have a factory 44 rear, were offered with a factory 44 front, has many proven bolt on suspension systems for go fast and rockcrawling, and enough wheel base to be stable in the dessert section. Grands are similar, but were also offered with a V8 from the factory. XJ's proven dessert setups(Jeepspeed), If fender cutting is allowed it would be easy to keep one low enough to do really well in the rocks and still have travel for the go fast stuff, and if axle upgrades are allowed they were offered in South America with Dana 44 fronts.
Even with this being pitched as more of an "everyman's" race, it's still not a budget race, I would say it will still take an investment of 15K to 30K to be competitive, but with last years race, you were looking at 100k minimum to be a semi-competitive team.
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Wasn't really thinking about the desert running........the idea of a Grand Cherokees sounds good. We need those rules!
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I read through the fist 6 pages or so over on pirate. I think they're all taking the stock word too serious. I'm hoping it will be for Jeeps like we build. Let them run 40" tires and make them nice rigs, that people can buy or build themselves. This let's all the lift and other offroad manufacturers showcase their stuff.
Kind of what the two JK's that ran the KOH last year were doing, but create a whole class for rigs like this.
Don't make it a bomber division with stock suspensions and 32" tires. That ain't gonna sell any merchandise.
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Also all the talk of using xj's and old broncos isn't going to bring any support from the marketing side. It's all about the new.
Think about the stock idea for a minute. Am I going add about 5000 worth of safety mods to a Jeep that has no performance mods. Who does that? Especially an external racing fuel cell that takes up your cargo area. Just so you can go beat the hell out of it for another $1000. Not me.
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And another thing. Let me put my front 60 in and build the cage and I'd run my Jeep through that bish.
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A V8 isn't going to be worth too much in the Dessert section with leaf springs, without a lot of work. I would say the LJ's, Grand cherokees, and xj's will be the dominant choices for Stock class. Lj's are coil sprung front and rear, have a factory 44 rear, were offered with a factory 44 front, has many proven bolt on suspension systems for go fast and rockcrawling, and enough wheel base to be stable in the dessert section. Grands are similar, but were also offered with a V8 from the factory. XJ's proven dessert setups(Jeepspeed), If fender cutting is allowed it would be easy to keep one low enough to do really well in the rocks and still have travel for the go fast stuff, and if axle upgrades are allowed they were offered in South America with Dana 44 fronts.
Even with this being pitched as more of an "everyman's" race, it's still not a budget race, I would say it will still take an investment of 15K to 30K to be competitive, but with last years race, you were looking at 100k minimum to be a semi-competitive team.
Sponsor anyone?
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Mike, the race organizers chimed in the last 2 or 3 pages with a rough outline of the rules. They're doing stock and stock mod. The Stock class will be restrictive to limit being able to spend your way to the winner circle, The JK's you're talking about will fit just fine in the stock mod class. The Stock class is not intended to be a bomber race though, it's intended to be a drivers race.
And just because the xj's and B2's don't have the fanboys that wranglers do, don't assume there is no manufacturer support for them. XJ's are currently big in dessert racing in the Jeep speed class and the aftermarket is getting quite large for them. Why start with a 30K base vehicle with an underpowered engine and transmission, then add another 30K worth of parts to it, when you can start with a 2K rig, and spend the rest on upgrades? Also I think a properly built TTB rig could own the class. I'm sorry, I like JK's but they are not all that, without spending big money, just like any other rig.
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Hmm i keep reading "full body". Would that rule out things like Tube fenders? That would kill a lot of weekend wheeler rigs right there.
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Hmm i keep reading "full body". Would that rule out things like Tube fenders? That would kill a lot of weekend wheeler rigs right there.
I doubt it; it's more likely that they are doing it to eliminate vehicles like this:
(http://www.fullsizexjgear.com/New%20xj%20project/P1010061r.jpg)
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Slow catching up - but this sounds awsome, i would love to be able to one day do this sort of thing!!!!
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Slow catching up - but this sounds awsom {popcorn}e, i would love to be able to one day do this sort of thing!!!!
I don't think you can dd there
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And the basic rules are out!
Stock:
* Full Frame
* Full Body
* Steering Box in Stock location
* Steering Upgrade out of model is approved
* Hydro Assist is Approved
* No Full Hydro
* Motor and Transmission open to any in Model/Year
* Transfer Case upgrades approved
* Axle shaft and housing swaps approved
* Suspension in OEM configuration
* Max wheelbase change of 3 inches
* One shock per corner
* 2.5" body 14" stroke max
* Shocks must mount to axle
* You may not cut holes in body or frame for shock clearance
* Front mounted radiator
* Cage tied to frame.
* Horizontal sandwich plates allowed
* Not settled on fuel cell/nets/seats... but 99% sure we will need to follow standard rules
Edit
35" DOT Tires
Aftermarket front fenders allowed
Stock Mod
* Body, Hood, Fenders OEM look
* Axles open
* Motor open but no aftermarket turbo or superchargers
* 37" DOT tire
* 2 Shocks per corner
* 2.5" Max Diameter
* Bypasses allowed
* Must be mounted to axle
* 14" max stroke
* OEM Frame from center line of front to center line of rear axle
* Hydro Assist allowed. No full Hydro
* Radiator Mounting open
* Scoping a rule that says if you win 'x' times you get bumped to the main event to prevent sandbaggers
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Sweet.
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So lets assume someone has that rig and wants to compete.. How hard is it for the normal man to get into the KOH in this class? No plans for me to race but I would love to be on someone's pit crew
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I'm still curious about the suspension part.
Would radius arms and triangulated 4-links count on say TJ/XJ/ZJ/etc. since they all had 4-links and those are technically 4 links?
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So lets assume someone has that rig and wants to compete.. How hard is it for the normal man to get into the KOH in this class? No plans for me to race but I would love to be on someone's pit crew
Just pass the tech inspection and be one of the first 100 or so to pre-register. No qualifying for the first race. It's still almost $1000 to pull up to the starting line in fees. Having a rig to pass tech will not be cheap, A standard DD/trailrider will likely not pass the fuelcell or cage requirements.
Ben, I think they will clear that up when the official rules are published, but right now, for the stock class I'm not sure they'll allow long arms, though I hope they do. Short arms on most rigs will make the highspeed sections really suck.
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Like Logan says I think its all still going to boil down to cost. Nobodys going to want to travel all the way out there with a rig that want pass and isn't capable of finishing are winning. With that being said I think you will be looking at somewhere in the range of 10 to 15 thousand dollars for a rig,entry fees, and getting out there. {ehm} Out of my budget unless someone wants to sponser me. ;D
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And another thing. Let me put my front 60 in and build the cage and I'd run my Jeep through that bish.
I'll drive it for ya old man! {nln}
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Like Logan says I think its all still going to boil down to cost. Nobodys going to want to travel all the way out there with a rig that want pass and isn't capable of finishing are winning. With that being said I think you will be looking at somewhere in the range of 10 to 15 thousand dollars for a rig,entry fees, and getting out there. {ehm} Out of my budget unless someone wants to sponser me. ;D
You know, I started to say the same thing, but my rig is too modified for stock class, and I would likely even have to reverse a few mods for stock mod. I will go to KOH as a spectator one day though. {toast}
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Same here I'm going to try and get out there next year to watch. {letseat}
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Maybe at the end of the day the rules will be similar to the W.E. Rock rules. At least close enough one could by a W.E. Rock and just make a few changes........
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Maybe at the end of the day the rules will be similar to the W.E. Rock rules. At least close enough one could by a W.E. Rock and just make a few changes........
From browsing over WEROCK's stock mod rules, the posted KOH stock mod rules are close. WEROCK doesn't have a stock class though.
I like the rules they've put out so far, It's going to take a lot of creativity to have a capable rig within the rules and I think this will breed innovation. Hopefully this won't turn into an all Jeep class, I'd like to see a 1st gen V8 explorer give it a go.
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it will bring out the real drivers. {popcorn} and logan maybe can find a cheap beater cherokee and get it ready for stock class. i will help out if i can get a lttle seat time while we are there. and sponsers just come down to asking the companies.
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Don't tempt me Wes, I have a lot of experience polishing turds, I wheel an xj. ::)
I need to focus on getting mine done, I'm beginning to have withdrawals.
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Maybe at the end of the day the rules will be similar to the W.E. Rock rules. At least close enough one could by a W.E. Rock and just make a few changes........
From browsing over WEROCK's stock mod rules, the posted KOH stock mod rules are close. WEROCK doesn't have a stock class though.
I like the rules they've put out so far, It's going to take a lot of creativity to have a capable rig within the rules and I think this will breed innovation. Hopefully this won't turn into an all Jeep class, I'd like to see a 1st gen V8 explorer give it a go.
What 1st gen Explorer had a V8 option? I thought they were only 4 bangers and V6's. Personally, I would love to build a 79 Bronco, but it's a little on the big side.
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First gen exploders didn't come with v8 as an option. It is nice that this is happening but at the same time its not for most of us. For the low budget racing check out ecors. That's what I plan on when my truck is done.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
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You guys are right, I was thinking the 5.0 had been offered in the 1st gen for some reason.
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You guys are right, I was thinking the 5.0 had been offered in the 1st gen for some reason.
As small as those were a 302 would have been pretty awesome!
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Well they were offered in the second gen, but those were a true IFS instead of TTB.
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I dont think there has been a perfect vehicle built buy any maker. If there was it would out sell everything. If the late model broncos had the dana 50 ifs with the 351w and was a hair longer and lots lighter it would be pretty decent for speed and strength. Or if they would have put the 5.0 in a ranger I love the power my truck has. Just sux that everything from mud boggs to rock races to desert races put my truck in a class that it wasnt built for. I think I may have solved that problem all I dont have now is coilovers and to be honest I dont want them. But that may change in 5 yrs.
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I dont think there has been a perfect vehicle built buy any maker. If there was it would out sell everything. If the late model broncos had the dana 50 ifs with the 351w and was a hair longer and lots lighter it would be pretty decent for speed and strength. Or if they would have put the 5.0 in a ranger I love the power my truck has. Just sux that everything from mud boggs to rock races to desert races put my truck in a class that it wasnt built for. I think I may have solved that problem all I dont have now is coilovers and to be honest I dont want them. But that may change in 5 hours.
Fixed it for you. {nln}
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Slow catching up - but this sounds awsom {popcorn}e, i would love to be able to one day do this sort of thing!!!!
I don't think you can dd there
no DD bro, im talking about after the next stage is complete....
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I dont think there has been a perfect vehicle built buy any maker. If there was it would out sell everything. If the late model broncos had the dana 50 ifs with the 351w and was a hair longer and lots lighter it would be pretty decent for speed and strength. Or if they would have put the 5.0 in a ranger I love the power my truck has. Just sux that everything from mud boggs to rock races to desert races put my truck in a class that it wasnt built for. I think I may have solved that problem all I dont have now is coilovers and to be honest I dont want them. But that may change in 5 hours.
Fixed it for you. {nln}
I think its called A.D.D we cant figure it out and I dont want to go to the doc. {ehm} {toast}
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Slow catching up - but this sounds awsom {popcorn}e, i would love to be able to one day do this sort of thing!!!!
I don't think you can dd there
no DD bro, im talking about after the next stage is complete....
The other DD drunk driving {toast}
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{no} {nln2} , i hear ya.....