Georgia Trail Riders Forum

OTHER INTERESTS => Guns & Self Defense => Topic started by: BigMike on February 15, 2018, 01:08:03 PM

Title: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: BigMike on February 15, 2018, 01:08:03 PM
Another tragedy, another hysterical call to take or prevent law abiding citizens from owning guns. 
Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: Big Dave on February 15, 2018, 03:04:49 PM
In a DUI we blame the driver, in a robbery we blame the theif but in a murder we blame the gun?
Logic at its worst.

No law on the books could prevent this & gun confiscation will never successful happen. A civil war will occur first.
The FBI was contacted twice about video's he posted stating he aspired to be a school shooter. The FBI never contacted the local PD.
Good job.

Like with ALL criminals, they will always find a way.
Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: clark123456 on February 15, 2018, 07:44:44 PM
What is there to debate...we should hand out guns and ammo like candy. 

Let's also lift all bans on full auto guns.

No need for a license/permit.


It ain't my kin at risk, so let's go full auto in everyone's hands!  Woohoo

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Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: BigMike on February 15, 2018, 08:16:24 PM
What is there to debate...we should hand out guns and ammo like candy. 

Let's also lift all bans on full auto guns.

No need for a license/permit.


It ain't my kin at risk, so let's go full auto in everyone's hands!  Woohoo

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I'm in


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Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: clark123456 on February 15, 2018, 08:24:26 PM
What is there to debate...we should hand out guns and ammo like candy. 

Let's also lift all bans on full auto guns.

No need for a license/permit.


It ain't my kin at risk, so let's go full auto in everyone's hands!  Woohoo

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I'm in


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Right?!?    Obviously what is being done now isn't working, so there is only one possible next step...guns guns and more guns...and more freaking ammo!

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Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: BigMike on February 15, 2018, 08:38:53 PM
What is there to debate...we should hand out guns and ammo like candy. 

Let's also lift all bans on full auto guns.

No need for a license/permit.


It ain't my kin at risk, so let's go full auto in everyone's hands!  Woohoo

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I'm in


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Right?!?    Obviously what is being done now isn't working, so there is only one possible next step...guns guns and more guns...and more freaking ammo!

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Free ammo from tax dollars. Kinda like ammo welfare.


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Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: Big Dave on February 15, 2018, 08:39:09 PM
You will definitely need tons of ammo with full auto. I prefer semi auto.
Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: clark123456 on February 15, 2018, 08:40:38 PM
What is there to debate...we should hand out guns and ammo like candy. 

Let's also lift all bans on full auto guns.

No need for a license/permit.


It ain't my kin at risk, so let's go full auto in everyone's hands!  Woohoo

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

I'm in


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Right?!?    Obviously what is being done now isn't working, so there is only one possible next step...guns guns and more guns...and more freaking ammo!

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Free ammo from tax dollars. Kinda like ammo welfare.


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But if it saves just one life, it's worth it.

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Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: Big Dave on February 15, 2018, 08:46:10 PM
What is there to debate...we should hand out guns and ammo like candy. 

Let's also lift all bans on full auto guns.

No need for a license/permit.


It ain't my kin at risk, so let's go full auto in everyone's hands!  Woohoo

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

I'm in


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Right?!?    Obviously what is being done now isn't working, so there is only one possible next step...guns guns and more guns...and more freaking ammo!

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Free ammo from tax dollars. Kinda like ammo welfare.


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But if it saves just one life, it's worth it.

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No argument here.

But seriously. Talk radio is talking metal detectors in schools. I revert back to my, criminals will find a way.
We need to find a solution but it doesn't seem like the left or right is too motivated to do so. They're too busy trying to prove Russian collusion.
Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: jc79 on February 15, 2018, 09:05:13 PM
Focus on the things that really matter, guys:

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180215/b9bd1942679bedaad627b90e35b17e44.jpg)
Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: tcdawg on February 15, 2018, 10:47:54 PM
Focus on the things that really matter, guys:

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180215/b9bd1942679bedaad627b90e35b17e44.jpg)


Yep


Underboob
Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: tjsahara00 on February 16, 2018, 02:58:00 AM
perfect end of discussion
thanks Jared!!!!!
Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: Chris36l on February 16, 2018, 11:51:09 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180217/63faf4bcecda0603fb1d38b20062acf7.jpg)


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Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: clark123456 on February 17, 2018, 06:44:20 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180217/63faf4bcecda0603fb1d38b20062acf7.jpg)


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Chris, do you have any concern with the rate of non-self-inflicted, and non-police-originated, bullets entering human bodies on American soil? (I.e., forgoing cops shooting folks, and suicide, do you care if other folks shoot each other?)

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Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: Anvilsam on February 17, 2018, 07:14:24 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180217/63faf4bcecda0603fb1d38b20062acf7.jpg)


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Chris, do you have any concern with the rate of non-self-inflicted, and non-police-originated, bullets entering human bodies on American soil? (I.e., forgoing cops shooting folks, and suicide, do you care if other folks shoot each other?)

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Clark see if you can open up that liberal mind long enough to make sense of this. A law banning guns will only take guns out of the hands of people who obey the law. Typically people who shoot up schools do not obey they law.


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Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: clark123456 on February 17, 2018, 07:24:26 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180217/63faf4bcecda0603fb1d38b20062acf7.jpg)


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Chris, do you have any concern with the rate of non-self-inflicted, and non-police-originated, bullets entering human bodies on American soil? (I.e., forgoing cops shooting folks, and suicide, do you care if other folks shoot each other?)

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Clark see if you can open up that liberal mind long enough to make sense of this. A law banning guns will only take guns out of the hands of people who obey the law. Typically people who shoot up schools do not obey they law.


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I get the concept, so in not pushing for a gun ban.  I'm truly trying to find out if Chris, and others like him, care if schools, churches, etc get shot up.  I care, to a very limited extent, but I might be an outlier.  Judging by the current state of things, well, for the last 20 years, I'm not an outlier since nothing has been done to change things and this isn't a recent phenomenon.

I did not know what liberalism or conservatism has to do with this discussing,  but feel free to make me less ignorant.

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Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: Anvilsam on February 17, 2018, 07:34:54 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180217/63faf4bcecda0603fb1d38b20062acf7.jpg)


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Chris, do you have any concern with the rate of non-self-inflicted, and non-police-originated, bullets entering human bodies on American soil? (I.e., forgoing cops shooting folks, and suicide, do you care if other folks shoot each other?)

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Clark see if you can open up that liberal mind long enough to make sense of this. A law banning guns will only take guns out of the hands of people who obey the law. Typically people who shoot up schools do not obey they law.


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I get the concept, so in not pushing for a gun ban.  I'm truly trying to find out if Chris, and others like him, care if schools, churches, etc get shot up.  I care, to a very limited extent, but I might be an outlier.  Judging by the current state of things, well, for the last 20 years, I'm not an outlier since nothing has been done to change things and this isn't a recent phenomenon.

I did not know what liberalism or conservatism has to do with this discussing,  but feel free to make me less ignorant.

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With you itís always about liberalism vs conservatism. I would be willing to bet that a higher percentage of conservatives care if stuff like this happens compared to liberals. With liberals itís always about using a tragedy to push an agenda and in turn giving the govt more control to keep people down.


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Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: clark123456 on February 17, 2018, 07:47:39 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180217/63faf4bcecda0603fb1d38b20062acf7.jpg)


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Chris, do you have any concern with the rate of non-self-inflicted, and non-police-originated, bullets entering human bodies on American soil? (I.e., forgoing cops shooting folks, and suicide, do you care if other folks shoot each other?)

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Clark see if you can open up that liberal mind long enough to make sense of this. A law banning guns will only take guns out of the hands of people who obey the law. Typically people who shoot up schools do not obey they law.


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I get the concept, so in not pushing for a gun ban.  I'm truly trying to find out if Chris, and others like him, care if schools, churches, etc get shot up.  I care, to a very limited extent, but I might be an outlier.  Judging by the current state of things, well, for the last 20 years, I'm not an outlier since nothing has been done to change things and this isn't a recent phenomenon.

I did not know what liberalism or conservatism has to do with this discussing,  but feel free to make me less ignorant.

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With you itís always about liberalism vs conservatism. I would be willing to bet that a higher percentage of conservatives care if stuff like this happens compared to liberals. With liberals itís always about using a tragedy to push an agenda and in turn giving the govt more control to keep people down.


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That argument is very wise, since these "tragedies" happen so often there is never a good time to have a discussion about how to prevent, or reduce (in terms of impact, or frequency) them.

I am encouraged to know that you believe they are tragedies, and not just a regularly unscheduled acceptable event.

I tried to start a thread to track these tragedies, but the overseers thought it wasn't the right time, so alas we kill the debate by wiping out threads, point fingers, and waiting for a long pause between the tragedies.  Oh well...on to debating Russians, and amnesty....things that matter more than tragedies.

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Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: jc79 on February 17, 2018, 07:51:33 AM
What should be done, Clark?  Serious question based on options available to us.


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Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: Anvilsam on February 17, 2018, 08:02:49 AM
What should be done, Clark?  Serious question based on options available to us.


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I wanna hear this as well


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Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: Chris36l on February 17, 2018, 08:49:34 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180217/63faf4bcecda0603fb1d38b20062acf7.jpg)


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Chris, do you have any concern with the rate of non-self-inflicted, and non-police-originated, bullets entering human bodies on American soil? (I.e., forgoing cops shooting folks, and suicide, do you care if other folks shoot each other?)

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As far as "innocents" being shot. I.E. children, innocent bistandards, law abiding citizens being caught up in the commission of a crime. I care a lot.

As far as criminals shooting criminals, I could really care less(maybe they'll help clean up the gene pool and take each other out before procreating) I don't think that any "gun control" law will fix the issue. I feel like the acceptance of mass violence in our country/society has slowly crept in over the last 40 or so years along side the crumbling of our families, morals, and values. Strengthen the family and we will begin to make a dent in this issue. The majority of the people that commit these "mass murder/casualty" events have been marginalized by the communities they live in. 40 years ago, they would have been committed to a mental health facility. Now we can't do that, maybe that's one change that can happen? I don't know, I'm just kind of rambling now. To answer your question, yes I care. I care more if children and innocents are involved. I would like to think of a way to stop it completely, but I don't think that's a realistic expectation. I know that regardless bad people with bad intention can and will find their weapon of choice. I think our best line of defense as "good people" is to arm ourselves and our communities and become the deterrent for criminals that the prison system no longer seems to be.......



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Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: Big Dave on February 17, 2018, 08:53:13 AM
There is no fix short of a total gun confiscation.
Agaian, criminals commit crimes & don't care where the gun comes from. They will buy it on the street or steal it from your car/home. 
We can fortify schools but then we just push the problem somewhere else. School bus stops, buses leaving the school, grocery stores, retirement centers....etc.
They are called soft targets for a reason.

I think Clarke is trying to get us to think hard about this & come up with a solution.......







& troll
Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: Chris36l on February 17, 2018, 08:53:57 AM
Stolen from my friends Facebook page. Just thought he articulated his thoughts very well.


"Gun control-definitely an issue
Mental health-definitely an issue but why is no one stating the obvious?  This country no longer seems to have a standard of ethics or good morals.  Our children need parenting and not by just the parents.  It used to be acceptable for teachers and other adults involved in the children's lives to influence them. It really does take a village.  It's disheartening that religion is frowned upon.  Whether God is real or not, he or she could do so much for this country."


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Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: clark123456 on February 17, 2018, 09:24:51 AM
What should be done, Clark?  Serious question based on options available to us.


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I wanna hear this as well


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I really don't know the answer, but what we've been doing obviously isn't fixing the issue.  To believe nothing should be done, and that we can't discuss options ANYTIME, including immediately after an event, is idiotic. 

Other countries with strict gun control do not have this issue anywhere close to the frequency of the U.S., even when looked at adjustments per capita.  They may have mass knifing events, but the death rates on those are much less than with mass shooting events..

There is no doubt that anyone who does mass killings is mentally disturbed.  The US can do anything we want, if there is a will to do so, including gun registrations and associated mental checks, and monitoring of mental health for gun users (and non gun users).

I believe the solution is multifaceted, and to completely take any option off the table makes zero sense to me.  I also believe the solution will not be immediate, so monitoring and adjustments will be needed for any solution implemented.

The big problem right now:  not enough people are willing to think about the solution with an open mind.

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Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: clark123456 on February 17, 2018, 09:27:32 AM
Stolen from my friends Facebook page. Just thought he articulated his thoughts very well.


"Gun control-definitely an issue
Mental health-definitely an issue but why is no one stating the obvious?  This country no longer seems to have a standard of ethics or good morals.  Our children need parenting and not by just the parents.  It used to be acceptable for teachers and other adults involved in the children's lives to influence them. It really does take a village.  It's disheartening that religion is frowned upon.  Whether God is real or not, he or she could do so much for this country."


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Maybe his thoughts were articulated well, but I do not think he is very intelligent.

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Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: Blue J on February 17, 2018, 11:19:47 AM
What should be done, Clark?  Serious question based on options available to us.


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I am fine with an Assault Weapons ban.

I think anything we can do to make it more difficult for Weapons such as AR's and other auto and semi-auto weapons stay out of the hands of kids.  Making it more difficult will have an affect.
I think our elected officials are smart enough to craft a bill that will allow us to keep our guns and make it much more difficult for kids and those that are mentally ill from acquiring them. Didn't we have a ban in the 90's? Did we have less mass murrders then? Is there data on this?

If I remember correctly the kids at Colombine didn't use AR's....I think they just had shotguns, rifles, and pistols.

I know there are laws on the books already. There needs to be some fawking accountablity.

Hunting-I didn't grow up hunting with an AR or a M-16. I had a Daisy then a Shot Gun.  When I grew up I knew that if I even touched any of the shot guns or rifles with out my Father being around. I was going to get an ass whippin'. I got enough of those as it was.

Kids today get rewarded for kills in video games. That's F'ed up.

I am not in some sort of delusion that banning one class of weapon will stop all the Mass Murders. I think it needs to be a multi pronged approach to the problem. Posting armed Vets and or LEO's at every school is a great idea but we can't even fund schools with the educational materials need now.
Can we make our schools fortresses? Sure.  Metal Detectors at every door  and one way in and one way out through guarded halls.

Will that stop every nut job, probably not. They will go to Wal mart or a movie theater.

I hear lots of talk about it being a mental health issue. Sure it is, and having an irresponsible Government That won't fund any mental health Services does not help. Is it the Gov'ts responsibility? only if they want to try to help solve the issue. Clearly they would rather push it to some else by offering prayers and condolences.

How much does the NRA contribute to Mental Health Services for those most likely to abuse guns?

There is not a clear path forward.

Open and honest discussion and pushing our elected officials towards any sort of positive change is the goal.

Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: Big Dave on February 17, 2018, 11:41:15 AM
Clarke, a registration will not happen.

Jimbo, if you are correct, hunting rifles & handguns were used at Colombine. How would a "assault weapons" ban have stopped or altered the outcome?
The term "assault weapons" is a made up name to scare folks. They are a sporting rifle.
There are laws on the books that makes DUI illegal but there are folks arrested daily for it. Have you ever heard of ANYONE utter the words ban alcohol or cars?
Same difference. Its not the guns fault.

There have been several knife attacks across the pond where 50 to 100 people were killed. Japan is one.

So lets ban guns, knives, crock pots, pencils, or anything pointy. Literally, anything can be made into a weapon. Timothy McVeigh used cow shit & a box truck. 

Mental health is the underlying issue & until out our elected officials address this issue we will continue to have mass killings, even if no firearms are involved.
Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: clark123456 on February 17, 2018, 11:50:48 AM
I wouldn't mind a way to hold people accOuntable who provide, or don't secure, guns used in these killings.  Right now the only accountability has to do with the individuals who commit the crime, regardless of how they get the weapons.

Tell me again, what is wrong with the registry?

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Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: Big Dave on February 17, 2018, 12:00:18 PM
Gun stores are robbed. I'm positive they keep them locked up. You gonna blame them or the thugs?

A gun is just a tool. A very loud tool.

FYI, the cops went to the shooters home 39 times starting in 2010. The guy was 10 or 11 when this became a issue yet nothing was done for or with him.

Parent(s) should have seen some clue to two.
Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: patman on February 17, 2018, 01:23:39 PM
I wouldn't mind a way to hold people accOuntable who provide, or don't secure, guns used in these killings.  Right now the only accountability has to do with the individuals who commit the crime, regardless of how they get the weapons.

Tell me again, what is wrong with the registry?

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I actually think they are... if I'm not mistaken, they can be arrested for providing or not restricting access to someone who commits a crime
Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: clark123456 on February 17, 2018, 01:26:07 PM
I wouldn't mind a way to hold people accOuntable who provide, or don't secure, guns used in these killings.  Right now the only accountability has to do with the individuals who commit the crime, regardless of how they get the weapons.

Tell me again, what is wrong with the registry?

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I actually think they are... if I'm not mistaken, they can be arrested for providing or not restricting access to someone who commits a crime
They should do a perp walk for those folks..educate the public.

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Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: patman on February 17, 2018, 01:28:51 PM
Jimbo, the 90s AWB was ineffective and there was no measurable statistic to prove it did anything.  The VT shooter also only used low capacity magazines, so large capacity magazine bans are also pointless.

The only point of these laws/bans was for certain people to say they accomplished something. Many proponents of these rules openly stated (later on) that the true intent wasn't to deter that activity, but to use as a stepping stone to a total ban on firearms. Luckily, they failed.
Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: patman on February 17, 2018, 01:31:12 PM
I wouldn't mind a way to hold people accOuntable who provide, or don't secure, guns used in these killings.  Right now the only accountability has to do with the individuals who commit the crime, regardless of how they get the weapons.

Tell me again, what is wrong with the registry?

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I actually think they are... if I'm not mistaken, they can be arrested for providing or not restricting access to someone who commits a crime
They should do a perp walk for those folks..educate the public.

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Agreed. One thing I can compromise on is raising the age of purchase from 18-21 for rifles unless having a military waiver. Kids are dumb, younger kids are dumber
Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: BigMike on February 17, 2018, 01:49:07 PM
Nobody wants to discuss the issue, only push their own agenda.  We keep going around and around with this issue.


Let's try to get to the core problem with mass murder.  Take away the tools ... AR's, AK's, shotguns, trucks filled with fertilizer and diesel fuel, etc. 


My take on it is the disregard for human life.  Murder is illegal but it still happens.  If every AR-type gun didn't exist in the hands of civilians, just as many children would be dead today.  Some people have evil intentions and will find a way to kill people.


Now, no matter what happens on Capitol Hill, AR's will never be banned.  The gun control issue will rage on and in the end, nothing will happen ... IMO. 


So how do we protect children at schools?  Well, how do we protect VIP's?  How do we protect money in a bank?  How do we protect the President?  With guns.  Even then it is 100% effective but it is a deterrent. 


Arm the staff at schools that are willing to be trained and carry.  Again, IMO, if the hero coach that shielded kids with his body had a weapon, he probably wouldn't be dead and would have saved more lives than he did. 


A very long-time friend of mine had his own church in Ohio before retiring to FL.  He carried a .38 in a shoulder holster under his suit while preaching on Sundays.  He was always armed.  When the kid in SC shot those people at bible study, I texted my friend a couple days later and said "I'll bet that kid wouldn't have killed anyone at your bible study", he replied "nope, no way". 


Some schools in the US have already implemented arming their staff.  The Left hates this idea because it calls for more guns, not less ... all the while they enjoy being protected by armed security. 


I'm open to your view on this.  What do you think the core issue is?
Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: Blue J on February 17, 2018, 01:51:23 PM
Clarke, a registration will not happen.

Jimbo, if you are correct, hunting rifles & handguns were used at Colombine. How would a "assault weapons" ban have stopped or altered the outcome?
The term "assault weapons" is a made up name to scare folks. They are a sporting rifle.
There are laws on the books that makes DUI illegal but there are folks arrested daily for it. Have you ever heard of ANYONE utter the words ban alcohol or cars?
Same difference. Its not the guns fault.

There have been several knife attacks across the pond where 50 to 100 people were killed. Japan is one.

So lets ban guns, knives, crock pots, pencils, or anything pointy. Literally, anything can be made into a weapon. Timothy McVeigh used cow shit & a box truck. 

Mental health is the underlying issue & until out our elected officials address this issue we will continue to have mass killings, even if no firearms are involved.

They tried an alcohol ban at the start of the last century.

Mental Health is the Core issue.

Do you think DUI has gone down or up since before MADD  started with their Ad Campaigns and laws were put on the books to enforce DUI's? Society has changed. and It needs to again.

Personally I think we need to bring back public executions. And hang anyone caught committing mass murder or any murders.
Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: Blue J on February 17, 2018, 01:53:01 PM
Nobody wants to discuss the issue, only push their own agenda.  We keep going around and around with this issue.


Let's try to get to the core problem with mass murder.  Take away the tools ... AR's, AK's, shotguns, trucks filled with fertilizer and diesel fuel, etc. 


My take on it is the disregard for human life.  Murder is illegal but it still happens.  If every AR-type gun didn't exist in the hands of civilians, just as many children would be dead today.  Some people have evil intentions and will find a way to kill people.


Now, no matter what happens on Capitol Hill, AR's will never be banned.  The gun control issue will rage on and in the end, nothing will happen ... IMO. 


So how do we protect children at schools?  Well, how do we protect VIP's?  How do we protect money in a bank?  How do we protect the President?  With guns.  Even then it is 100% effective but it is a deterrent. 


Arm the staff at schools that are willing to be trained and carry.  Again, IMO, if the hero coach that shielded kids with his body had a weapon, he probably wouldn't be dead and would have saved more lives than he did. 


A very long-time friend of mine had his own church in Ohio before retiring to FL.  He carried a .38 in a shoulder holster under his suit while preaching on Sundays.  He was always armed.  When the kid in SC shot those people at bible study, I texted my friend a couple days later and said "I'll bet that kid wouldn't have killed anyone at your bible study", he replied "nope, no way". 


Some schools in the US have already implemented arming their staff.  The Left hates this idea because it calls for more guns, not less ... all the while they enjoy being protected by armed security. 


I'm open to your view on this.  What do you think the core issue is?

Mental Health is the Core issue.

Many of my liberal friends are great marksmen and women. Not all Liberals think guns are bad.

Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: BigMike on February 17, 2018, 01:59:34 PM

Mental Health is the Core issue.

Many of my liberal friends are great marksmen and women. Not all Liberals think guns are bad.




Ok, mental health.  So is it possible for someone to have perfect mental health today and tomorrow they just snap and commit mass murder? 
Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: Blue J on February 17, 2018, 02:27:40 PM


 Many proponents of these rules openly stated (later on) that the true intent wasn't to deter that activity, but to use as a stepping stone to a total ban on firearms. Luckily, they failed.

I have not heard this. But of course I only read Liberal media. So how could I?
Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: Blue J on February 17, 2018, 02:29:36 PM

Mental Health is the Core issue.

Many of my liberal friends are great marksmen and women. Not all Liberals think guns are bad.




Ok, mental health.  So is it possible for someone to have perfect mental health today and tomorrow they just snap and commit mass murder? 

I guess anything is possible. But I'm not sure it is likely.
Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: clark123456 on February 17, 2018, 02:35:06 PM

Mental Health is the Core issue.

Many of my liberal friends are great marksmen and women. Not all Liberals think guns are bad.




Ok, mental health.  So is it possible for someone to have perfect mental health today and tomorrow they just snap and commit mass murder?
Mike, I think/hope we can agree there is no stopping it 100%.  What some of us are arguing is the impact and frequency can be reduced.

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Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: BigMike on February 17, 2018, 02:46:40 PM

Mental Health is the Core issue.

Many of my liberal friends are great marksmen and women. Not all Liberals think guns are bad.




Ok, mental health.  So is it possible for someone to have perfect mental health today and tomorrow they just snap and commit mass murder?
Mike, I think/hope we can agree there is no stopping it 100%.  What some of us are arguing is the impact and frequency can be reduced.

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Agree. So how is a mental health issue identified and dealt with to prevent more tragedies like these?  The American Civil Liberties Union will be fighting against authorities forcing people to involuntarily being plucked from society and tested.  I do believe that the authorities completely failed in this latest tragedy and has just cause to bring the kid in for a discussion and maybe further evaluation.  It's a slippery slope though. 
Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: patman on February 17, 2018, 02:49:34 PM
I'm interested in knowing which SSRI (Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors) this guy was using. The common thread for most of these shooters are mind altering drugs that include warning labels of "psychotic thoughts and suicidal tendencies".
Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: BigMike on February 17, 2018, 03:00:11 PM
I'm interested in knowing which SSRI (Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors) this guy was using. The common thread for most of these shooters are mind altering drugs that include warning labels of "psychotic thoughts and suicidal tendencies".

SSRI medications are not only used to treat depression.  They are used to treat migraines, ADHD, and other non-psychotic issues. 
Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: kent10sne1 on February 17, 2018, 03:02:08 PM
Well , times are changing.   growing up in texas, i had a gun rack in my pick-up.  3030 and 306 both loaded , summers in texas where hot, so windows stayed down.  now we had , delt with bullies and such.  fights still occured. 

however i never once, nor did anyone of my friends think of getting a gun or those i had fist fights with during and after school..  yes, i got into trouble alot and they used a paddle,.. .. anyway.   

we never once thought about getting a gun,.. .or a stick or knife.   two guys fought.  when one stopped, quit, or could not continue..we broke the fight up and made them shake hands, and it was done. god help the guy that tried to sucker punch or hold a grudge. 

maybe it was the time when i grew up, no one even thought about steeling anything from a car, might as well be a liberal..errr .. sorry.  slip there..  but, also back then teachers ruled and if u got in trouble at school, ur ass also got a butt woopen at home, they belived the teachers none of this.. my child is good.  parents where... parents, not kids best buddies. 

i think we have alot of this due to the breakdown of a standard of moral code , now not everyone agreedd but dam. we didnt have snowflakes and shit..  not saying kids fell thru the cracks, but none would have dont that.   

my math teacher actually open carried at our school, he was also the FFA teacher , the biggest issue at our school was catching kids smoking, drinking, dipping snuff, or having sex under the bleachers and such.  reall hard core stuff. i guess. 

its sad when this happens, but a guy can kill 10+ ppl renting a truck and going to town as kids exit school.  so to say. .its guns , ur not going to stop this , just already to many in this country, plus, as has been stated.  bad guys, crazy guys .. if they want it, they will get it, then find a "gun free zone" and know 100% everyone is an easy target.  me.  i dont want to be eazy, im going out shooting, spitting, punching.   the media uses this as well as others to push an agenda.   

Im kind of pissed the FBI seems to have dropped the ball here. .  who knows if we will ever find out.  the dam vegas shooting is still not 100% they screwed that up and i bet theres some coverup going on in that whole cluster....    sad kids lost lives.  but didnt a guy kill a bunch of elementry kids with a dam hammer.  dont see the press trying to ban hammers.. geshhh.
Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: patman on February 17, 2018, 03:17:20 PM
I'm interested in knowing which SSRI (Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors) this guy was using. The common thread for most of these shooters are mind altering drugs that include warning labels of "psychotic thoughts and suicidal tendencies".

SSRI medications are not only used to treat depression.  They are used to treat migraines, ADHD, and other non-psychotic issues. 

Correct, but in the cases where these shooters have been prescribed, it's not for migraines. For a very small percentage of users, the side effects are intense. I think both the church shooter and the movie theater guy said they started hearing voices.
Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: clark123456 on February 17, 2018, 04:03:19 PM
You guys keep saying the anti-gun folks have an agenda, and I generally agree...the agenda is to reduce gun related deaths.  Flawed or not, it's an agenda.

 Do you think there is some other agenda?  If so, what is it?

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Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: BigMike on February 17, 2018, 04:19:50 PM
The Left's agenda has nothing to do with reducing gun related deaths, it is to eliminate the second amendment and confiscate all firearms.


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Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: clark123456 on February 17, 2018, 04:55:59 PM
The Left's agenda has nothing to do with reducing gun related deaths, it is to eliminate the second amendment and confiscate all firearms.


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For what purpose?  What is the ultimate goal?

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Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: BigMike on February 17, 2018, 05:07:02 PM
The Left's agenda has nothing to do with reducing gun related deaths, it is to eliminate the second amendment and confiscate all firearms.


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For what purpose?  What is the ultimate goal?

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Control to drive their socialist agenda. Can't have those pesky citizens rising up.


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Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: Chris36l on February 17, 2018, 05:07:33 PM
The Left's agenda has nothing to do with reducing gun related deaths, it is to eliminate the second amendment and confiscate all firearms.


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For what purpose?  What is the ultimate goal?

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(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180217/4d578e57f21ea68dca8a13c28164fb74.jpeg)



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Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: Big Dave on February 17, 2018, 05:24:03 PM
Clarke, a registration will not happen.

Jimbo, if you are correct, hunting rifles & handguns were used at Colombine. How would a "assault weapons" ban have stopped or altered the outcome?
The term "assault weapons" is a made up name to scare folks. They are a sporting rifle.
There are laws on the books that makes DUI illegal but there are folks arrested daily for it. Have you ever heard of ANYONE utter the words ban alcohol or cars?
Same difference. Its not the guns fault.

There have been several knife attacks across the pond where 50 to 100 people were killed. Japan is one.

So lets ban guns, knives, crock pots, pencils, or anything pointy. Literally, anything can be made into a weapon. Timothy McVeigh used cow shit & a box truck. 

Mental health is the underlying issue & until out our elected officials address this issue we will continue to have mass killings, even if no firearms are involved.

They tried an alcohol ban at the start of the last century.

Mental Health is the Core issue.

Do you think DUI has gone down or up since before MADD  started with their Ad Campaigns and laws were put on the books to enforce DUI's? Society has changed. and It needs to again.

Personally I think we need to bring back public executions. And hang anyone caught committing mass murder or any murders.
Yeap Prohibition didn't work just as a gun ban will not solve the problem.
I'm not sure of the numbers before or after MADD.
I think public execution is pushing it but the death penalty should be the minimum.
Honestly, if the cops see the shooter in action, they should ensure the shooter(s) do not survive.
I don't care to why they did it. There is NO excuse for this type of behavior. If you are sane enough to plan & carry it out then you are sane enough to die.

Also, if you are old enough to make the decision to join the military & possibly die for your country, you are old enough to own firearms & consume alcohol.
Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: clark123456 on February 17, 2018, 05:28:09 PM
The Left's agenda has nothing to do with reducing gun related deaths, it is to eliminate the second amendment and confiscate all firearms.


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For what purpose?  What is the ultimate goal?

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Control to drive their socialist agenda. Can't have those pesky citizens rising up.


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LMFAO. You'll bring your AR and handgun to a missile fight...lovely...good luck.

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Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: BigMike on February 17, 2018, 06:09:34 PM
The Left's agenda has nothing to do with reducing gun related deaths, it is to eliminate the second amendment and confiscate all firearms.


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For what purpose?  What is the ultimate goal?

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Control to drive their socialist agenda. Can't have those pesky citizens rising up.


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LMFAO. You'll bring your AR and handgun to a missile fight...lovely...good luck.

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You're assuming the military would side with the government. Also, 350 million guns is a lot for missiles to take out. Your knowledge is lacking.


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Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: clark123456 on February 17, 2018, 07:35:19 PM
The Left's agenda has nothing to do with reducing gun related deaths, it is to eliminate the second amendment and confiscate all firearms.


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For what purpose?  What is the ultimate goal?

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Control to drive their socialist agenda. Can't have those pesky citizens rising up.


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LMFAO. You'll bring your AR and handgun to a missile fight...lovely...good luck.

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You're assuming the military would side with the government. Also, 350 million guns is a lot for missiles to take out. Your knowledge is lacking.


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LOL. You're so smart and knowledgeable, Mickey.

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Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: Anvilsam on February 17, 2018, 08:05:12 PM
The Left's agenda has nothing to do with reducing gun related deaths, it is to eliminate the second amendment and confiscate all firearms.


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For what purpose?  What is the ultimate goal?

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Control to drive their socialist agenda. Can't have those pesky citizens rising up.


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LMFAO. You'll bring your AR and handgun to a missile fight...lovely...good luck.

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Itís a safe bet that most military people love their country more than their government. The lefts agenda is to have the people bow down to the government and rely on them for everything.


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Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: clark123456 on February 17, 2018, 08:26:57 PM
The Left's agenda has nothing to do with reducing gun related deaths, it is to eliminate the second amendment and confiscate all firearms.


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For what purpose?  What is the ultimate goal?

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Control to drive their socialist agenda. Can't have those pesky citizens rising up.


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LMFAO. You'll bring your AR and handgun to a missile fight...lovely...good luck.

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Itís a safe bet that most military people love their country more than their government. The lefts agenda is to have the people bow down to the government and rely on them for everything.


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Sam, once again, how does gun elimination support the bow down agenda?

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Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: Big Dave on February 17, 2018, 08:44:26 PM
It would be silly to bring a knife to a gunfight.
Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: Mortalis5509 on February 18, 2018, 09:12:48 AM
Is this an offroad forum or a debate forum?

I'm getting confused lately.

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Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: BigMike on February 18, 2018, 10:54:12 AM
The Left's agenda has nothing to do with reducing gun related deaths, it is to eliminate the second amendment and confiscate all firearms.


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For what purpose?  What is the ultimate goal?

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Control to drive their socialist agenda. Can't have those pesky citizens rising up.


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LMFAO. You'll bring your AR and handgun to a missile fight...lovely...good luck.

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Itís a safe bet that most military people love their country more than their government. The lefts agenda is to have the people bow down to the government and rely on them for everything.


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Sam, once again, how does gun elimination support the bow down agenda?

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History. Read about how this guy named Hitler took over Germany and exterminated it's citizens. The first thing he did is take away their guns.  I wouldn't expect your intellect to learn from history though. Just keep saying g that will never happen to us.


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Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: kent10sne1 on February 18, 2018, 11:03:14 AM
Is this an offroad forum or a debate forum?

I'm getting confused lately.

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ya, but this is a gun form.  :) so gun related discussions.
Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: clark123456 on February 18, 2018, 11:22:00 AM
The Left's agenda has nothing to do with reducing gun related deaths, it is to eliminate the second amendment and confiscate all firearms.


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For what purpose?  What is the ultimate goal?

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Control to drive their socialist agenda. Can't have those pesky citizens rising up.


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LMFAO. You'll bring your AR and handgun to a missile fight...lovely...good luck.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Itís a safe bet that most military people love their country more than their government. The lefts agenda is to have the people bow down to the government and rely on them for everything.


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Sam, once again, how does gun elimination support the bow down agenda?

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History. Read about how this guy named Hitler took over Germany and exterminated it's citizens. The first thing he did is take away their guns.  I wouldn't expect your intellect to learn from history though. Just keep saying g that will never happen to us.


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#godwinslaw

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Title: Re: Queue up the gun debate
Post by: clark123456 on February 18, 2018, 11:24:23 AM
Is this an offroad forum or a debate forum?

I'm getting confused lately.

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Ditto. 

I've tried to avoid these discussions, but the crazy from some members draws me back in...every time.  #hitleriscomingforyourguns

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